Yoshi P's Stance on Pld

[Cheraa]

The only weakness is SE fault to make Tank and Healer DPS necessary for Enrage Timer.
That should be a No-Go. Enrage should be handled 100% through DPS of the DDs, that is their job. Our job is to tank and position the fight, not to deal max. DPS.

[Duelle]

The only weakness is SE fault to make Tank and Healer DPS necessary for Enrage Timers.
That should be a No-Go. Enrage should be handled 100% through DPS of the DDs, that is their job. Our job is to tank and position the fight, not to deal max DPS.

Well, changing encounter design isn't the only thing that'll fix this. You'd need to adjust the three tanks to play within certain parameters and deal equal DPS to remove that factor out of the equation.

[Cheraa]

That's true. Even more if we see that a Raid has only space for 8 player.
If our Raids would be around 16 player, with 2 Tanks, than 200dps difference of tank jobs matters way less than with 8 players.

I think the concept of Tanks with good DPS and okay Defence (WAR / DRK) and with good Defence and okay DPS (PLD) can acually work, but only if the size of raids is big enough. As smaler as the Raids are and FF XIV raids are super small (8 man was back in DaoC a small group), DPS matters a lot, sadly.

[Freyyy]

I'll just toss this quote from another thread (the one called "Let's nerf WAR ") here because I think this guy is super right about how Paladin has been designed compared to the other two tanks.

With Warrior it's clear the devs actually had some design goals: build stacks, switch stances, (nearly) all abilities should be useful as MT or OT. Even their "you-can't-kill-me" move has a second function of preventing knockback. It even gets good cross class abilities. The only problem warrior has is a UI issue with FC and Inner Beast not occupying the same button. Even still, it's easy to think of natural extensions to its ability set for the next expansion (your next move doesn't consume wrath, this move's crits generate extra wrath, etc).

Dark Knight has similar design goals but is implemented a bit worse: build MP, use dark arts, maintain darkside. DRK can't use its defensive abilities to build MP as off tank, but it does have some pretty good synergy within its ability set (blood weapon + physical off GCDs, Dark Dance + Reprisal + Low Blow, Dark Dance + Dark Passenger). Dark Knight has issues, such as Grit's high MP cost, but the only real hole in its gameplay is that it can't mitigate physical attacks as frequently as a warrior or paladin.

Paladin has no thought put into it. Stuff like Cover was tossed in there because "of course FF paladins have cover" without any reason to actually use it in a fight. They started to actually develop some gameplay in 3.0 but the cast time and cooldown of Clemency and Divine Veil respectively are way off. Goring/RA don't add to the capabilities of the class but were obviously needed. Sheltron is the only ability we got that I think is 100% fine, but it doesn't cover the gaping holes in the class.

[Wolfas]

We can't use enough the Gloring/RA where as they said we will be able to do it, just because PLD doesn"t generate enough threat compared to the 2 others.

More damage to deal more threat of adjust multiplicators of threat. They are too bad.

[Kydi]

We can't use enough the Gloring/RA where as they said we will be able to do it, just because PLD doesn"t generate enough threat compared to the 2 others.

More damage to deal more threat of adjust multiplicators of threat. They are too bad.

I suspect the reason they've not just upped the multipliers (which, admittedly, would fix the problem at level 60) is due to level 50 sync. If PLD modifiers were brought in line with DRK and WAR, the latter would both have issues with threat with a PLD off tanking if they used their other abilities. To effectively manage this they would need to work either a scaling threat dependent on level (add a 50+ trait) or rework the abilities to give PLD its dps combos earlier.

[Kerwin]

The chances of PLD getting major buffs are very slim. I'm betting their probably going to increase hate generation from weapon skills on the RoH combo string. and maybe a bump to shield swipe.

I could be wrong. But that's my bet.

If shield swipe was off my global cooldowns I would use it more often as extra enmity gain. But in most cases, I need to do my roh Enmity combo again just to maintain aggro on me. Coming from a full VIT PLD I don't have room to do goring blade unless I want to lose aggro. A Full VIT WAR/DRK would have no problem keeping aggro.

[Duelle]

I'll just toss this quote from another thread (the one called "Let's nerf WAR ") here because I think this guy is super right about how Paladin has been designed compared to the other two tanks.

Stuff like Cover was, sadly, an answer to the people in 1.0 who complained that they wanted iconic abilities and jobs in the game. This said, I did suggest a long time ago that Cover could be implemented like Vigilance from WoW.

As I've repeatedly said, Clemency is an off-tanking skill. It's hybrid off-healing with the appropriate trade-offs. Of course it's not going to be a sure thing while getting hit in the face by the boss; that's an intentional part of the design. It's also eerily similar to how I'd expect RDM off-healing to be implemented.

Divine Veil's cooldown is fair for what it does: mitigate raid damage. That said, this is also a 1.0 relic since it used to provide a HoT on people near you when you received heals, and I'm guessing they thought it was a good mechanic to use. The only issue I have is the cooldown, but knowing that the shielded amount is based on the PLD's, it would probably be too much to reduce the cooldown to something like 90 seconds.

[Seku]

Stuff like Cover was, sadly, an answer to the people in 1.0 who complained that they wanted iconic abilities and jobs in the game. This said, I did suggest a long time ago that Cover could be implemented like Vigilance from WoW.

As I've repeatedly said, Clemency is an off-tanking skill. It's hybrid off-healing with the appropriate trade-offs. Of course it's not going to be a sure thing while getting hit in the face by the boss; that's an intentional part of the design. It's also eerily similar to how I'd expect RDM off-healing to be implemented.

Divine Veil's cooldown is fair for what it does: mitigate raid damage. That said, this is also a 1.0 relic since it used to provide a HoT on people near you when you received heals, and I'm guessing they thought it was a good mechanic to use. The only issue I have is the cooldown, but knowing that the shielded amount is based on the PLD's, it would probably be too much to reduce the cooldown to something like 90 seconds.

I can agree to a upgrade to cover like that.

Even while OTing Clemency is still pretty bad. Your healers should have people healed up unless their new, new to the fight, horrible, or SE makes a fight revolving around PLD curing people, they won't.

DV's mitigation is nice, but is largely not needed more so since both WAR and DRK can reduce damage on a boss and from what I'm remembering a lot of raid damage is magical based which falls under DRK's int down.

The above points I just pointed is why I'm actually praying that SE actually gives PLD more utility. As a damage and hate buff wouldn't really get us very far and would just really make it to where PLD = physical fights and DRK = Magical fights.

But in conclusion, I get a gut feeling SE isn't going to do anything with PLD really for a long time and we'll be seeing DRK MT a majority of fights in top tier groups until 4.0....or basically PLD is the new DRG. No good raid utilitah.

[Freyyy]

But in conclusion, I get a gut feeling SE isn't going to do anything with PLD really for a long time and we'll be seeing DRK MT a majority of fights in top tier groups until 4.0....or basically PLD is the new DRG. No good raid utilitah.

and then in 4.0 PLDs will get battle litany and everyone will want em, the cycle never ends it's like FFI with Chaos and Garland bro