Bring back interesting trash packs in savage!

[Selli]

The lack of trash has been around for all endgame raiding.

t1: Had lots of trash, but 90% of parties just had a tank pull and die so they could be skipped.
t2: No trash.
t3: Trampolines. That is all.
t4: Similar to A2S. No trash pulls, but trash for a "boss"
t5: No trash.

t6: 2 trash pulls.
t7: Annoying trash pulls pugs complained about.
t8: Minor trash, skip rest if you know how to not push doors too early.
t9: No trash.

t10: Skipable trash.
t11: See t7.
t12: No trash.
t13: No trash.

Now we have Alexander.

A1: Faust
A1S: Faust.
A2: See t7 and t11. "Trash" for boss as well.
A2S: "Trash" for boss.
A3: As a healer, I hate this trash the most. Freaken poisons on everyone. >:c
A3S: No trash.
A4: No trash.
A4S: No trash.

Savage "trash" (basically Faust) does not save your progress the way Coil did. If you left A1S without clearing, you have to fight Faust again, meaning any trash in the other turns would have been more annoying than anything if they existed. I'm glad Savage doesn't have extra trash. You're doing Savage to fight harder bosses and get 210 gear, not deal with Goblins that hit harder for no reason.

[Nomad-phx]

Trash would only work in savage if they re-introduce shortcuts, but I don't think that would coincide with the forced party composition this cyce(mechanics that make raids REQUIRE 2 tanks/2 healers) as every group would single tank trash for more dps then switch back for real boss.

[Dererk]

Sadly yes. Which is a shame... Some of the best victories I've had while raiding in other games actually came from the moment we got a particularly difficult trash pull down and really learned how to do it. My favorite, of course, is learning that in Tower of Orthanc (LotRO) in the Shadow Wing that we would easily kill the second trash pull if we just ran straight from the first to the second without stopping to plan... Ironic that it worked that way, but we got a running joke from it where of we ever sat around too long we'd start saying, "Too much planning, we're going to die." Pretty funny, but it was just something special for our group and it came from trash, and not a boss.

I only did dysmanis in ffxi to me that was fun never mad it to any of the bosses there and only did it a total of 3 times still best fun I had in that game. Never made it to sea and sky sadly due to how the story set up was needing a full party to do any of the story battles there.

[rappa]

Bosses have enought gear/dps check to put trash mobs before the encounter.

The only reason tu put trash mob is for increase the time wasted during raids an probably an useful loot. FFXIV trash mob haven't loot so...My answer is not thanks.

[Malzian]

Bosses have enought gear/dps check to put trash mobs before the encounter.

The only reason tu put trash mob is for increase the time wasted during raids an probably an useful loot. FFXIV trash mob haven't loot so...My answer is not thanks.

But here's the thing, as I said before, you can use that trash to move those checks -off- of the bosses. The effect of this is twofold, 1) boss fights immediately become less grueling, 2) the whole of the raid becomes more challenging and worthwhile. The gear at the end becomes a result of beating the whole raid, not just the boss. And if done right, the raid won't be any longer than it currently is.

[DarkmoonVael]

This is why we will never get bigger funner raids. This mentality.

Yeah becuase having pointless trash before a boss is really a "mentality" now isnt it. Turn 1 and 6 may have done it well, but alexander certainly hasnt, neither did final coils.

You don't want a raid you want a trial. Trash in between stuff didn't have to be pointless they could make them drop rare mats as well as chests that have a chance of giving you a gear piece from that raid. Could also make it if you clear side stuff extra chests.

They don't even have to put the stuff in story just put it in the high end stuff.

And this isnt what was being put forward in the OP. What is being talked about is trash being there for the sake of being there. No mention of changing trash to be more than trash, and being a functional aspect of the raid which drop mats or loot.

[Kuwagami]

I wouldn't call the trash packs "interesting" in FFxiv's raiding.

Well, I suppose the crystal tower's packs were interesting enough, but coil, and now alexander's trash are just boring "deeps that" thingies.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Correct me if I'm wrong as I was not playing MMOs back then, but didn't the term "Raid" come about because in Everquest you gathered a large group (~72) players in order to make a quick attack on the various targets within and then get out of (i.e. "Raid") a dangerous location?

[Malzian]

Correct me if I'm wrong as I was not playing MMOs back then, but didn't the term "Raid" come about because in Everquest you gathered a large group (~72) players in order to make a quick attack on the various targets within and then get out of (i.e. "Raid") a dangerous location?

Yes, but those were unorganized and didn't really have a format. You just got in and did whatever and the goal was set by the players and the reward was whatever you got out of it. WoW introduced raiding as an organized attack on a specific target with specific goals and rewards. It took something that was a thing people were doing randomly on their own and made it an official activity. Of course, when you are 'raiding' a target, you don't just rush in and attack that target without opposition. Usually it's a battle all the way to the target (of difficulty appropriate to the final battle) and then you beat the target and get out.

[Priya]

I'm okay with trash if it drops something (like BoEs in WoW raids). Trash that's only there to be annoying and add extra time is stupid, however.

FFXIV raids don't feel like raids, but it's not because they lack interesting trash, it's because they're broken down into so many zones. "Raiding" 1 room doesn't exactly feel very grandiose. CT was the closest thing to a legit raid this game has, and even that was an illusion (see all this tower space you CAN'T visit?). Void Ark looks like it will try to emulate CT. BCoB is a close second, but the rooms still feel a bit small. I get Alex is inside a tiny robot, but I wish they would've made the inside larger. Naxx was inside a tiny building, but it didn't feel that way.

It's a shame the less viable raids (CT) feel more epic than the legit challenging ones we spend so much time in.