The Definitive State of Paladins Thread

[Astral145]

I just think SE needs to make up there minds. Is tank suppose to tank or dps? This whole stance dancing is problematic especially in PUG groups. Seriously I don't know how many times I've seen a healer struggle healing a tank that refuses to pop into tank stance while holding 2 to 3 pulls of mobs then complain about dieing because the healer either ran out of mp or just couldn't keep the poor bastard alive.

SE either needs to either get rid of dps stance and just add that dmg to tank stance... or simple get rid of the dps stance and give no dmg buff to tank stance.... one or the other... this whole thing about stance dancing is ridiculous and causes way to many problems during runs ...

[DGladius]

Seriously I don't know how many times I've seen a healer struggle healing a tank that refuses to pop into tank stance while holding 2 to 3 pulls of mobs then complain about dieing because the healer either ran out of mp or just couldn't keep the poor bastard alive.

I don't think I've ever seen that happen in pugs. Mostly I see in pugs is dps not being able to do more than half of what their dps should actually be around, making enemies stay alive longer causing more healing. There's nothing wrong with tank stance dancing. The ones that are good will find ways to deal as much dmg as they can effectively while tanking.

I'm sure there will be tweaks made to paladins for next set of raid. Maybe something like improving their aggro, self mitigation and for the party so less healing is needed and more time for healer dps.

[Astral145]

DGladius

Its been quite the opposite for me. The majority of the runs I have had after leveling 7 battle jobs to 60 with mnk being a close 8 (level 58) I have seen more than enough to know how people are viewing tanks. I mostly get tanks that pull everything in dps stance then hope that the healer can keep up. The whole run ends up being a tug of war between the tank and healer.

It's ridiculous.... and at best makes the runs last longer bc of the wipes.... Just yesterday I had a run in the Aery (lvl 55) dungeon that lasted 50 mins bc of this tug of war between tank and healers and it wasn't bc of the bosses... this was all bc the tank wanted to keep pulling 2 pulls of mobs while in dps mode... the healer just couldn't keep the poor bastard alive.

[Synestra]

I mostly get tanks that pull everything in dps stance then hope that the healer can keep up.

Tbh theres really no point to use OT stance in dungeons when pulling big packs, WAR can propably pop in and out of defiance to get few decimates to speed things up but thats it. I guess majority thinks now that you need to be in OT stance 24/7 no matter what content you do...

Now if you do dungeons with pre-made then you can do whatever you want, but in DF its better to play safe as you dont know what kind of team-members you get in there.

[technole]

SE either needs to either get rid of dps stance and just add that dmg to tank stance... or simple get rid of the dps stance and give no dmg buff to tank stance.... one or the other... this whole thing about stance dancing is ridiculous and causes way to many problems during runs ...

But Warrior has always had skills like IB that ignore the Defiance penalty for damage/self-heal, and Unchained for ignoring Defiance altogether for full-ham DPS while in tank stance. Now Defiance-Unchained can be used as a defensive cooldown stance dance in Deliverance but used in an offensive way. Deliverance was easily a natural progression for the job instead of having no stance which means no stack generation, and that was rather clunky. Stance dancing also enables the ability to easily mitigate and/or get a cooldown up or do DPS depending on the situation.

Overall, stance dancing has raised the skill ceiling for the job, and some people in DF land do not play it very well or realize they have an arsenal of cooldowns they could use while in Deliverance to still get "Defiance-like" mitigation, do a lot of damage, and still tanky.

[Freyyy]

a defensive cooldown stance dance in Deliverance but used in an offensive way

a stance dance defensive deliverance berserk defiance offensive dancing stance aeolian edge ?