Would PLD be viable if its mitigation was as superior to DRK as its DPS is inferior?

[giantslayer]

From what I've seen others post, it seems Paladins are around 10% lower single target DPS than DRK and 20% lower than WAR (AoE is probably a much wider gap). Paladin is supposed to bring increased defensive capabilities in exchange for lower damage. Comparing to WAR is apples and oranges, but DRK is apples to apples as they are very similar.

Compared to DRK, PLD has:
- A physical shield, which people are saying is good for 3-5% on average.
- Shelltron
- 10% higher mitigation in Sentinel than DRK's equivalent (10s with 180s cooldown).
- Hallowed Ground is a lot better than Living Dead (although it is 420s vs 300s cooldown).
- Stoneskin and Clemency, which people don't seem to think highly of (I don't have Clemency yet on PLD myself, so I can't say much for myself).

All-in-all, this doesn't really feel like 10% overall better defensive capabilities than DRK. It feels closer to 5% IMO, less if you put more weight on a magic based scenario like A4S. I wonder if the problem isn't that defensive tank is a useless proposition, but that PLD simply isn't as much better at defense as it is inferior at damage? Most of the discussion has been purely on DPS, not on defensive capabilities.

My question is: If PLD had an across the fight average 10% better defensive capabilities than DRK, would it then be viable in Savage?

Say hypothetically they increased the damage reduction in Shield Oath to 25% (for damage taken, not dealt). Is increasing defensive capabilities a viable alternative to increasing DPS to bring balance? (Note: I am not saying SE should buff Shield Oath, just throwing it out as a hypothetical scenario.)

[Kaisersoke]

its dps isnt THAT much lower than DRK, and since a4s caters to magic damage, its doubtful. drk would still have dark mind up for every tank buster so, drk would still be the go to. its just a matter of how ridiculously poorly designed drk and a4s are. square is pretty much drumming up artificial interest in drk because of this

[Myrhn]

The thing is PLD is more of a physical defence tank and DRK is a magical defence tank and so far in HW most of the boss fight do more magical damage than phisical damage.

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

I'm actually making an incredibly detailed thread about what Paladin lacks, at least in my opinion, and how the issue can be resolved. You'll find the thread here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-happens-when..... I only ask that you be patient and understanding since in order to accurately describe both the problem and a proposed solution it will take time.

[Kaisersoke]

Id also like to add, that square added all these ridiculous dps checks and unforgiving mechanics in leiu of actual difficult bosses, so making paladins shield oath more tanky when they spend the majority of their time in sword for dps checks, would make little to no impact on how viable paladin is. the problem with paladin is solely because of how square designed savage.

[giantslayer]

I haven't played A4S so I don't quite know how it works. Are the DPS checks in non-damage phases where everyone, including the healers, can go all-out DPS, or is there significant incoming damage to be mitigated/healed? If incoming damage is negligible during the DPS checks, then increasing mitigation is useless. If more defense meant the healers could DPS more, then that could help the party meet the check. I was kind of assuming it was the latter with incoming damage when I wrote this thread.

[OPneedNerfs]

Why is comparing PLD to DRK "apples to apples" while PLD to WAR is "apples to oranges"?

Did WAR become a DPS class overnight?

[Valkyrie-Amber]

Fact is pld should not be superior to drk in magical defense but should be equal if they wont buff plds dps they can at least make us more defensive. Then give us a tp regen sill like drks and wars have or just give us access to lancer skills so we can have invigorate and blood for blood lol well actually.

SE quick fix for pld give us access to lancer cross class skills though if pld had blood for blood... well wars would no longer be king of tanks in regards of dps so then they would need buffs... Give all 3 tanks access to lancer cross class skills I say.

Also Have SE not heard of Paladins and holy shields from many other games?

[giantslayer]

Why is comparing PLD to DRK "apples to apples" while PLD to WAR is "apples to oranges"?

Did WAR become a DPS class overnight?

DRK and PLD both have 20% damage reduction in tank stance and DRK has virtually identical equivalents to PLD's two main defensive cooldowns, Rampart and Sentinel.

WAR on the other hand has more things based on self-HP recovery instead of damage mitigation cooldowns. It is not so straight forward to compare defensive capabilities.

[RapBreon]

Why is comparing PLD to DRK "apples to apples" while PLD to WAR is "apples to oranges"?

Did WAR become a DPS class overnight?

What do you mean overnight?