NO MORE ALEXANDER(NM)!

[zosia]

I very much enjoyed NM Raids. A lot of players do not have time or desire to get into a static that has to dedicate time to schedule a meet to nock out these Savage Mode raids. No body is forcing anyone to run NM raids over and over and over again. As a matter of fact you don't need to. Any hardcore raider wont need to. Run it once then wait for savage mode.
You are already getting awesome gear from Savage mode while the majority of players will have to wait till 3.1 to upgrade eso gear. I am one who plays this game to level up all classes and to enjoy all the stories this game has to offer. I use to love hardcore raiding in other games but in FFXIV I don't have time for that anymore.

To all the hardcore salty raiders out there get over it and allow the majority of the players to enjoy there NM raids so they can enjoy the story, because the casual players are the ones that keep the lights on at FFXIV don't forget that.

What about the majority of raiders that have very little to do right now? Casual players have alex Nm. Hardcore raiders have alex savage 1-4. What about the larger raiding population, the regular non-hardcore crowd. Are they just supposed to quit the game since the dev team does not care about them? Should they just unsub at this point since they literally will never have any meaningful raid content to do with this paradigm?

You're generalizing and it makes your points come off as presumptuous. Most of these "salty hardcore raiders" Will not even get to try upgrading left side eso items before 3.1. Check your silly assumptions that all raiders play at the same level.

Sometimes it's very hard to post a constructive comment when someone is being a totally self-centered, self-entitled *Censored*

On a more serious and constructive note, you post about catering 5% of the content to 5% of the players. Did you hit your head or something? Why not make content for 100% of the player base?
Hard content =/= Exclusive content for raiders.

There is no exclusive content in MMO's. There is only content you cannot do for z, y or z reason. I don't do chocobo racing because it's a huge time sink for very little rewards. I don't have the time to invest in something with so little pay out.

That does not mean I am going to demand that chocobo racing get a second "tier" Where our birds our less powerful than regular ones but are easier to breed/level. hard content =/= exclusive

I imagine it'll need 190.

Alex normal needed 170, which was full Law gear.

190 is full Alex normal gear.
I still think the problem with burnt out raiders is exclusively due to the way loot was handled and not the raid themselves.

"Nothing's different this is boring"
It'd been out two weeks after normal launch. Were you bored of doing the same fights every week for 2 months in Coil? No? Of course not, you did them once per week, not 4+ per boss(or more, if you df and didn't get very lucky).

Running the same fight over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over in a short time period is going to burn you out.

On top of it, the Savage difficulty is asinine compared to the gear that was out when it was launched. They either should have delayed it or set the "ideal" item level lower. Based on output needed, it seems they had planned on 195 being the start point for A1S. That implies esoterics gear. Yet, they released it before yoiu could have possibly gotten enough gear to get to that point(because they released at the same time), hell, you couldn't even have full normal gear by then.

And yet they were peeved(you can tell) that it was cleared when it was. They expected it to take longer.

Now imagine if you'd only needed 180 to clear it, like the folks that didn't want to do Normal ask for. It'd have been cleared day one and ya'll would be crying it's not hard enough.

Make up your minds.

1) Yes, it was very boring. Stop speaking for us, you're just making straw-man arguments to prop up your points by doing that. No one likes farming raids after you get the full clear. Once you're group starts farming, the loot is what becomes fun. The boring part IS doing the same fights over and over again every week.

2) So does farming a weekly lockout, which is why raiders frequently "take a break" between raid patches. NM took the "new car smell" away from savage. You can't defend, twist, or interpret it. Many raiders are voicing the opinion NM being essentially required killed SV for them.

3) There is no council of raiders where we meet and agree upon the agenda. Raiders =/= unified group of people who share the same opinions. Different people propose different solutions, what a novel concept.

1. your answer can be used for other content as well
2. better+dyable gear, achievements, unique mount, satisfaction of clearing hardest content available at the time.
seriously, for you to be sore that other people get to see the story in a story centered game with all those unique rewards is kinda childish.
PS: if you want to see the story after clearing savage, I suggest skipping the cutscene when you do normal. I think there's an option for that in the settings.

That is only really all available to the top 10% of the raiding community. The other 90% will probably get their first gob twine from Void ark. So, no, raiding savage is hardly rewarding right now. The gear that is dyable, that isnt boots or gloves, are locked behind a3s and a4s. That mount and that gratification of killing a4s are only for the server best players. The achievements don't give any titles like SCoB savage, so those are also underwhelming.

PS: You know that a good potion of the story cut scenes were tied to a quest that does not repeat with savage right? If raiders did what you suggest, they would miss out on at least half of the cut scenes In NM. What a horribly thought out suggestion. I also love that you would make the people who want to work the most for the story most wait the longest while people who want it spoon fed could not wait for echo nerfs like in ARR.

[Nadirah]

Zosia, if you didn't like "farming" it after the first clear, you didn't have to.

I've been raiding in MMOs for over 10 years. If I didn't like farm runs like you seem to think raiders don't like, then I wouldn't be doing it. I wouldn't have been doing it. I wouldn't do it in the future.

I've also never had my teams take breaks in between raid patches.

This is the very first game where running the same raid 20 times a week was night required for gear.

If you were tired of Coil in the first two weeks like you claim to have been with normal Alex, maybe raiding isn't for you.

[zosia]

Zosia, if you didn't like "farming" it after the first clear, you didn't have to.
I've been raiding in MMOs for over 10 years. If I didn't like farm runs like you seem to think raiders don't like, then I wouldn't be doing it. I wouldn't have been doing it. I wouldn't do it in the future.

I've also never had my teams take breaks in between raid patches.

This is the very first game where running the same raid 20 times a week was night required for gear.

If you were tired of Coil in the first two weeks like you claim to have been with normal Alex, maybe raiding isn't for you.

If you're really an ex raider (or currently are one), then you know why we can't simply "take a break" without leaving your static (unless your team takes a break, which was what I was implying). I am part of a higher end raid team and you can't sit on your hands once things are on farm. You want to go in with the highest footing possible to tackle bosses of SV or the next raid tier.

This is why wow removed traditional tier sets and trinkets from LFR. They did not want normal-mythic raiders feeling like there was a lost opportunity to improve performance. That's what alex NM was. You either prepared for savage with alex normal or waited months on eso. Farming alex NM was a chore, and virtually mandatory at that. What makes it boring and feel like a chore? The fights are so simple! You can literally face roll all of normal with a complete pug. That's what made farming coil boring. Farming == the fight is learned. You can go on auto pilot. Especially the fights SE designs where you literally are performing the same thing for the same global 90% of the time through the entire encounter.

I don't even need to look at the screen in a3s until the 1st knock back. At least the rest of the fight is still challenging. I think you get my point though. Once you start to farm a raid tier, it's for your BiS for the next raid tier. You don't keep farming it because it's fun to kill the same fight over and over again. It's fun to chase the loot dragon. It's fun to play with your buddies. It's fun to get the first few clears.

If you wanted to join a static at the start of SV, you needed to come geared so a static would have recruited you. If you were already in a static, you would not let your team down by showing up day one of a1s without any alex normal gear.

It was a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

[ChazNatlo]

Out of curiosity, what is the story justification for Alex Savage? I assume they don't just drop out of character for a second and say "Hey player, you want a bigger challenge, better gear? Let's go back in there and punch things in the face."

I mean like how The harder Ultima was you reliving the tale with some embellishments from that bard, or how the Extreme Primals are them being resummoned with more crystals. How they choose to set it up may limit options for the future.

I should note that I am not far enough in the game to pick sides, just ask questions.

[Whiteroom]

Out of curiosity, what is the story justification for Alex Savage? I assume they don't just drop out of character for a second and say "Hey player, you want a bigger challenge, better gear? Let's go back in there and punch things in the face."

I mean like how The harder Ultima was you reliving the tale with some embellishments from that bard, or how the Extreme Primals are them being resummoned with more crystals. How they choose to set it up may limit options for the future.

I should note that I am not far enough in the game to pick sides, just ask questions.

Same as Ultimas Ballad, you get the Savage quest from the Wandering Mistral in Mor D. Hes a good fall back for when they can't think of a better reason.

It did not work out well this time. The reason sucked.

Sigh, I didn't mean it was a good reason for us to do it. It's just their go to fall back for if they don't have a real reason.

[zosia]

Same as Ultimas Ballad, you get the Savage quest from the Wandering Mistral in Mor D. Hes a good fall back for when they can't think of a better reason.

It did not work out well this time. The reason sucked.

[MasamuneBranford]

To me - Alexander Savage is not worth it because there isn't enough time to enjoy your hard earned gear before it becomes outdated.

Ultimately I think having Alexander NM is better for 95% of the FFXIV community. I would say only 5% or less of the FFXIV is the type of community that plays enough to be able to tackle savage difficulty content prior to an item level cap raise.

Back during BcB - you would have your 5% of the community that could finish all of the turns prior to an itemlevel cap raise. After the itemlevel cap raise, these "hardcore / highly skilled" players would move onto the next coil. The 95% of the community that hadn't finished the older coil had to make a choice. They could move onto the newer content that rewarded higher item level gear than the old coil - or they could attempt to work with some of the lesser skilled 95% to play outdated content for storyline purposes. The latter didn't always pan out and hence you had majority of the community never being able to experience coil.

The bottom line - 95% of the community could waste all of their free time trying to take down savage and likely would never complete it prior to a level cap raise (or would finally complete it at the 11th hour and find that their hard earned gear would be outdated within a week or two).

As of now, I can comfortably view the storyline - get my item level 190 gear and then catch up on other games. To me, it's not worth the ridiculous amount of effort that goes into getting the 210 gear - as it will be outdated within a six months. In a couple months I'm sure I can do expert roulette and buy something higher than 210.

If SE wanted to fix this - they would make item level 210 the highest possible gear for a couple of years (the duration of the expansion). Subsequent patches would offer horizontal progression (gear with perks). If I "knew" that I was going to be stuck with item level 190 gear for a couple of years while there is 210 out there - I might be more inclined to do something about it. As of now - I don't want this game to be my full-time job - (I would spend all my freetime trying to get full item level 210 gear and then the cap would get raised).

So you either have NM and everyone experiences the story. Or you have only savage and less than 10 percent experiences the story. Or alternatively you do the two year plan thing I mentioned.

[zosia]

To me - Alexander Savage is not worth it because there isn't enough time to enjoy your hard earned gear before it becomes outdated.Ultimately I think having Alexander NM is better for 95% of the FFXIV community. I would say only 5% or less of the FFXIV is the type of community that plays enough to be able to tackle savage difficulty content prior to an item level cap raise.

Back during BcB - you would have your 5% of the community that could finish all of the turns prior to an itemlevel cap raise. After the itemlevel cap raise, these "hardcore / highly skilled" players would move onto the next coil. The 95% of the community that hadn't finished the older coil had to make a choice. They could move onto the newer content that rewarded higher item level gear than the old coil - or they could attempt to work with some of the lesser skilled 95% to play outdated content for storyline purposes. The latter didn't always pan out and hence you had majority of the community never being able to experience coil.

The bottom line - 95% of the community could waste all of their free time trying to take down savage and likely would never complete it prior to a level cap raise (or would finally complete it at the 11th hour and find that their hard earned gear would be outdated within a week or two).

As of now, I can comfortably view the storyline - get my item level 190 gear and then catch up on other games. To me, it's not worth the ridiculous amount of effort that goes into getting the 210 gear - as it will be outdated within a six months. In a couple months I'm sure I can do expert roulette and buy something higher than 210.

If SE wanted to fix this - they would make item level 210 the highest possible gear for a couple of years (the duration of the expansion). Subsequent patches would offer horizontal progression (gear with perks). If I "knew" that I was going to be stuck with item level 190 gear for a couple of years while there is 210 out there - I might be more inclined to do something about it. As of now - I don't want this game to be my full-time job - (I would spend all my freetime trying to get full item level 210 gear and then the cap would get raised).

So you either have NM and everyone experiences the story. Or you have only savage and less than 10 percent experiences the story. Or alternatively you do the two year plan thing I mentioned.

That is such a valid point. It's akin to giving out current mythic hellfire citadel gear while mythic hellfire citadel is still progression in wow. I never ever have any issues with nerfs or giving out catch up gear, but do we really need to give savage alex equivalent gear in void ark while savage alex is still progression?

I never understood why this is such a big issue for players. I was never into 25 man heroic raiding in wow, but I never begrudged those 25 man heroic raiders for getting higher ilvl gear than I could get. It was their reward for their efforts.

As is the same for most any MMO. I never begrudged the top 1% of the players that had stuff I did not have the time or resources to earn, and I was fine with that. I would go back to old expansion tiers to farm vanity and I was content being a normal mode raider with my normal mode rewards.

Here, players throw a conniption fit about having the same ilvl as raiders, even if the content is still current. The sad part, is they get so focused on ilvl, sometimes it goes over their head that 210 does not always == BiS. It's like people complain for gear they don't even know how to utilize properly.

[hagare]

That is only really all available to the top 10% of the raiding community. The other 90% will probably get their first gob twine from Void ark. So, no, raiding savage is hardly rewarding right now. The gear that is dyable, that isnt boots or gloves, are locked behind a3s and a4s. That mount and that gratification of killing a4s are only for the server best players. The achievements don't give any titles like SCoB savage, so those are also underwhelming.

PS: You know that a good potion of the story cut scenes were tied to a quest that does not repeat with savage right? If raiders did what you suggest, they would miss out on at least half of the cut scenes In NM. What a horribly thought out suggestion. I also love that you would make the people who want to work the most for the story most wait the longest while people who want it spoon fed could not wait for echo nerfs like in ARR.

Top 10% only? Did SE not allow the 90% to do it?
the rest in that is all opinion I guess.

PS: hey, it's not my fault they lost their motivation after seeing it in normal and the other rewards aren't enough for them
Maybe they should just stick with normal then

Here, players throw a conniption fit about having the same ilvl as raiders, even if the content is still current. The sad part, is they get so focused on ilvl, sometimes it goes over their head that 210 does not always == BiS. It's like people complain for gear they don't even know how to utilize properly.

I rarely see those kinds of thread here now.
Most I see is those raider threads complaining about savage.
either about removing NM, not enough motivation/rewards for doing it, how it's not worth doing because it''s too hard etc etc etc

[zosia]

Top 10% only? Did SE not allow the 90% to do it?
the rest in that is all opinion I guess.

PS: hey, it's not my fault they lost their motivation after seeing it in normal and the other rewards aren't enough for them
Maybe they should just stick with normal then


I rarely see those kinds of thread here now.
Most I see is those raider threads complaining about savage.
either about removing NM, not enough motivation/rewards for doing it, how it's not worth doing because it''s too hard etc etc etc

Yes, because,

A) this game already gives absolutely everything the casual player. Keep the upgrade items out of void ark and see what kind of post pop up.

B) There are some serious problems with Alex savage. I don't think you understand the problem. You seem to refuse to actually try to understand. You rather brush it off as rabble, like a good portion of the people on this forum. It does not matter if we are irate or we take the time to talk to you folks as respectful as we can, player to player. The only thing that people care about is having their toys and damn everyone else no matter how it effects the reward schedule of the game. A couple more raid tiers like this one and you won't have to worry about raider threads anymore, I promise you that.

Should I take pictures of the convos I am having every week where statics have broken up so I can post them here? Do you guys needs to see that about an average of one static, a well know one, breaks up once a week? The attrition rate is through the roof and SE is about to lose the lion's share of the entire raiding community.

Even Elysium, the world first group, said that alex SV might have been tuned too hard. Remove your head from the sand and realize it's never a good thing for a game to lose about 10% of it's players. Do you really want to look back at 3.0 as the content that broke the end game? That's the reality we are facing right now while you brush this off as more hardcore rabble.

P.S. Don't worry, don't have to apologize, just understand your idea was poorly thought out.