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  1. #61
    Player Februs's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,927
    Character
    Februs Harrow
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick22 View Post
    I think that before, he didnt trust us, and saw us like any orther ignorant mortal. But now we have passed his trial, he seems to trust on the WoL and show his respects.
    It would seem so. I think he wanted to confirm with his own eyes that we were worthy of Hydaelyn's blessing. His witnessing of our actions, and our Trial against the Knights, seems to be what swayed him to our cause. I do wish that Middy had played a more active role in the plot though. He only has a couple notable appearances throughout 3.0. Given that he was with us the whole time, I kinda wish we had more of him in cutscenes and whatnot; though, it's good enough to know that he bore witness to the events.
    (2)

  2. #62
    Player Kaiser-Ace's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,966
    Character
    Kai Magnus
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Februs View Post
    It would seem so. I think he wanted to confirm with his own eyes that we were worthy of Hydaelyn's blessing. His witnessing of our actions, and our Trial against the Knights, seems to be what swayed him to our cause. I do wish that Middy had played a more active role in the plot though. He only has a couple notable appearances throughout 3.0. Given that he was with us the whole time, I kinda wish we had more of him in cutscenes and whatnot; though, it's good enough to know that he bore witness to the events.
    I believe the devs said at some point we'd be getting some answers to Middy's purpose as Lake Guardian, His Arrival in Eorzea, and his Relationship with Hydaelyn through out the 3.x story cycle.

    That may help fill in some of the long standing mysteries about Midgardsormr.
    (0)

  3. #63
    Player Nadirah's Avatar
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    May 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,978
    Character
    Nadirah Serenity
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 60
    This reminds me of the Daedra argument from TES forums.

    Dragons in FFXIV, much like Daedra in TES, have a completely different set of morals and ethics. To them, this might not even be what we would call "Evil".
    (0)

  4. #64
    Player
    Delily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    666
    Character
    Delmania Shadowstar
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadirah View Post
    This reminds me of the Daedra argument from TES forums.

    Dragons in FFXIV, much like Daedra in TES, have a completely different set of morals and ethics. To them, this might not even be what we would call "Evil".
    Which part are you referring to? Both sides considered themselves at war with each other. None of the other dragons outside of Niddhogg wanted to continue fighting, but they knew even if they killed Niddhogg, the Holy See would not stop fighting until all the dragons were eradicated. It wasn't a matter of good vs. evil.
    (0)

  5. #65
    Player Nadirah's Avatar
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    May 2015
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    Gridania
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    1,978
    Character
    Nadirah Serenity
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 60
    I'm saying that to dragons, Nidhogg's actions could very well be normal, acceptable behavior.
    (0)

  6. #66
    Player Kaiser-Ace's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,966
    Character
    Kai Magnus
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadirah View Post
    I'm saying that to dragons, Nidhogg's actions could very well be normal, acceptable behavior.
    Midguardsormr's reaction says otherwise

    Seems to me like Nidhogg's sanity is so far gone he doesn't even remember why he's fighting.

    The way Nidhogg behaves is more like a common scale kin than a great wyrm. Even his own father and brother can't condone his actions.
    (2)

  7. #67
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Hermit's Hovel
    Posts
    3,698
    Character
    Trpimir Ratyasch
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace View Post
    The way Nidhogg behaves is more like a common scale kin than a great wyrm. Even his own father and brother can't condone his actions.
    While it's hard to really say how Midgardsormr feels about Nidhogg's millennium-long crusade against Ishgard, Hraesvelgr for his part doesn't really condemn him. I believe he said something along the lines of "If it weren't for Shiva's soothing spirit, I would be right there with him!" and he knew from the very beginning that if he saved Nidhogg the latter would go on an eternal war of vengeance against the descendants of the Knights and their nation. (Literally eternal, as in his goal is not to win but to make Ishgardians suffer. Forever. Such sadism cannot be justified on any level, but still, Hraesvelgr is all like "It's your fault, man!") This puts Hraesvelgr in the odd position of "I want to join my brother, but my soulmate's... soul is bound to me and keeping me calm, so I'm just gonna mope around Zenith forever."

    Midgardsormr seems more contemplative than condemning when he sees resurrected Nidhogg, as he simply asks what Nidhogg's fury has done to him. He clearly understands why Nidhogg feels the way he does, but makes no actual condemnation of his actions. Heck, he recognizes Aymeric and the rest of the welcoming party not as themselves, but as "children of Thordan," so clearly he understands Nidhogg's angle. Just not why he absolutely refuses to let go of his rage. He is the one dragon that seems to truly understand the difference between the values of dragons and the values of mortals, and so does his best to be a mediator.

    Nidhogg's sanity may have been severely eroded by Ratatoskr's murder and his own maiming, but he still has mental faculties of some kind, as can be inferred by him calling Estinien's use of his own power against him depraved. With such little screen time, it's hard to say how the resurrected Nidhogg will behave; how much influence does Estinien have over him, if any? (Doesn't matter; if he gets in my way, I will cut him down as I did once before.) He's quite close to being a feral beast, and definitely nothing like the celestial wyrm he is meant to be, but he still has some measure of intellect and some sort of value system.
    (0)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.3 - End)
    [ ]LOST [ ]NOT LOST [X]TRAUNT!
    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

  8. #68
    Player
    Belhi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    3,016
    Character
    J'talhdi Belhi
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 90
    Nidhogg's minions target Hraesvelgr's brood. I'd say Nidhogg has slipped beyond just normal draconic reasoning. He and his brood has become consumed by hate to the point of madness. The Darkscale FATE chain in the Churning Mists shows this pretty well.
    (0)

  9. #69
    Player Kaiser-Ace's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,966
    Character
    Kai Magnus
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    That's more what my angle was. It's like Nidhogg has become a psudo primal and his wrath has actually tempered all of his brood into a mindless blood lust. Hrasvelgr's brood seems rational, and in many ways tiered, in regards to the war.

    After all if thousands of years go by like days to them it's be like the ONE TV show you never liked having an all week marathon on the only channel you get.

    But Nidhogg's sadistic blood lust truely doesn't know friend nor for and is so strong as to seemingly temper his children with his hate.

    I won't make any assumptions about the resurrection as Middy has been walking around with us after seemingly cheating death for 20 years. So with enough Aether apparently coporial bodies are negotiable to an extent.
    (0)

  10. #70
    Player Dererk's Avatar
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    Oct 2014
    Location
    Limsa
    Posts
    1,162
    Character
    Dererk Titan
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    I think there's a lot more going on in what actually started the dragonsong war. We didn't see the king and knights eat they eyes with the echo.

    And there's pieces of alagan restraints in the arey. For all we know Nidhogg some how started it all him self in some way he may have wanted a reason to break the utopia people and dragons built together.
    (0)

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