NO MORE ALEXANDER(NM)!

[Zumi]

You must not raid because alex savage is an entirely different beast than final coils.

Full ilvl 210 is not going to bail groups out of the coordination checks and performing under pressure.

The clear rates for t13 were at least around 3% before the nerfs. The clear rates for a4s are sub 1%. Full 210 is not going to bring the same level of clears to a4s that full ilvl130 brought to final coil.

Also, t13 had an significant gear checks, so more gear made that easier. A4s is not difficult by virtue of gear checks, it's difficult by virtue of mechanics.

No i do raid check my profile you can see i have 210 gear.

The mechaincs aren't that hard its the dps checks, like hand of pain, having enough dps to kill the adds, beating the enrage timers on the boss in general. We have the most problems with dps checks and not mechancis, our set up is pld war mnk nin bard smn whm sch. No drg lost lot of dps and I don't play dark and no blm so thats a lack of burst dps when we need to bust stuff down like hand of pain.

We have no problems with mechanics its always been the dps checks for us. We did beat T13 pre nerfs.

[zosia]

No i do raid check my profile you can see i have 210 gear.

Just by comparing world 1st groups and their completion of FCoB and Savage alex, you would know that these raid tiers are far from the same. It did not take nearly as long for t13 to go down the 1st time as it did a4s.

[Zumi]

Just by comparing world 1st groups and their completion of FCoB and Savage alex, you would know that these raid tiers are far from the same. It did not take nearly as long for t13 to go down the 1st time as it did a4s.

Just proves my point its dps checks. More or less the mechanics aren't any harder then final coil mechanics its needing more gear and the most optimal set up you can have to clear the content faster. Why did all thoes 1% use the same cookie cutter set up which is, war drk, drg nin blm brd whm sch ? That set up gave the most dps. People actually switched their jobs when they found out this set will give max dps and has the best synergy.


They had to wait so long to get enough gear to overcome the harsh dps checks that didn't exist in the previous tier. But overall the mechanics aren't really any harder then final coil in my opinion is you just have to wait longer to gear up especially if you have a non optimal set up such as having plds, or no drk, or no drg. and a lot of people don't seem to get that and just give up and say they don't want to do it.

[zosia]

Just proves my point its dps checks. More or less the mechanics aren't any harder then final coil mechanics its needing more gear and the most optimal set up you can have to clear the content faster. Why did all thoes 1% use the same cookie cutter set up which is, war drk, drg nin blm brd whm sch ? That set up gave the most dps. People actually switched their jobs when they found out this set will give max dps and has the best synergy.


They had to wait so long to get enough gear to overcome the harsh dps checks that didn't exist in the previous tier. But overall the mechanics aren't really any harder then final coil in my opinion is you just have to wait longer to gear up especially if you have a non optimal set up such as having plds, or no drk, or no drg. and a lot of people don't see to get that and just give up and say they don't want to do it.

yeah, the tiers are different. You even admit to it a bit yourself. The mechanics are much more difficult. Just count the mechanics in a3s, count the phases, and compare them to the third boss of each raid tier.

There are more mechanics and more is required of people while those mechanics are going off. In coils, you could have a few weak links that your team could compensate for. With alex savage, you cannot have a single weak link in your chain to get an as4 clear.

[Kinseykinz]

Just by comparing world 1st groups and their completion of FCoB and Savage alex, you would know that these raid tiers are far from the same. It did not take nearly as long for t13 to go down the 1st time as it did a4s.

True, but it DID take about as long for T5 to go down (legit), as it did A4S....and once SE saw the clear video, Twisters got an overhaul b/c even SE realized 'that isn't working right'

The real issue, with Savage currently, as I said before, has little to do with 'Normal Mode' existing. Savage is boring (overall) mechanically speaking, and way too similar to normal mode...only it feels like you're naked gear wise. Sure, there's plenty of need for 'perfect' play in savage....but it's not creative play. Alex Normal mode, it made sense for it to be a bit vanilla...but hell, Crystal Tower has more inventive mechanics/differences (and that was designed for casual groups/strangers).

If you really asked most people who have raided prior in this game, why all the sudden Savage 'isn't worth it' you'll find is most people just don't like THIS style of 'endgame'...because THIS raid is poorly crafted. ....and in some respects, too parallel to things we've seen before, only tuned above and beyond what our gear levels at this point should logically handle...especially if you don't do 'alt farming' of turns for drops.


Just as an example of the difference between the 'successful' Binding Coil raids vs. Alex Savage.
Binding Coil 1. vs Savage 1

T1:
ADS= 'So you think you can handle this?' Gatekeeper. Required some actual skilled play w/ Silence rotations/dodges/heals/both tanks had roles all while being a DPS check.

Some Trash to kill, but even these mobs had a couple little quirks/there were chests to chase if you wanted to.

Cad.
It's been a LONG time since I had to do this 'the legit way' But the room itself added a dynamic with the glowing floors+you had the adds and feeding to work with/their mechanic (they could blow up), then you had the split snake/even dps burn mechanic to do. Heals were challenged because overtime, the snakes hit harder/party members did take poison and other damage. Tanks had to mitigate properly/hold hate/pull properly/feed (if your OT was the feeder), and dps had to still burn to avoid the tanks getting too many stacks while killing both mobs within a certain small window of time. Now as groups got better geared, they could start skipping mechanics etc in this battle, but in the beginning, you HAD to feed (at least sometimes), you had to split to kill etc.

AS1
First off, before even breaking it down, it's very similar to T1....only, in many ways, less original and less fun.

Faust: Straight up DPS check. Tank(s) hold Boss (or boss+mobs depending on your strat), and everyone and their mamma blows their load on them. Tanks and healers ALSO need to dps as much as possible, while fully mitigating/healing. No real gimmick/no real skill check...just a solid 'do you know your role well enough/geared enough to dps this thing' Faust could be a training dummy for all it really matters gameplay style wise.

Opressors:
Okay, so this gets a little more complex than Faust....in that there's a lot of 'do it right or die' mechanics in this fight. But they aren't inventive or hard mechanics. They just happened to be clustered up and happen at almost the same time. This fight also puts an unfair amount of the pressure on the healers vs. other members of the party (which is ALSO an alex raid theme). Add to that, rng on prey can make the mechanic easier or harder to deal with any given phase cycle, and you have yourself a cluster. But, it's not technically a HARD fight, it's quite repetitive actually. It's just having the RNG work in your favor+ the fact that it's likely tuned for a gear score many teams don't have even when they can burn Faust, and it can be a deathtrap. But mechanic's wise, for most team members, it's not hard.

Also, both these bosses, seem like rehashes of T1

As you compare the next Floors/original BC turns, you'll find, most of the Binding coil 1 stuff was more creative/inspired than what Alex Savage offers. Now notice, I didn't bring up story, or gear or anything of the sort as to why people participated in BC more than this raid. People LIKED binding coil more because it felt more inventive/less 'dps racy all the time' I mean it HAD genuine DPS checks, but they were checks, and not 'push down the accelerator and never let up no matter what ever!' dps checks.

All this leads to people going 'why bother?' Much of it lies in 'it's not fun' and less in 'there's no point' ...if it was FUN, there'd be a point. Because it DOES still drop the best gear/have a unique mount etc. But many people don't every really like Normal Alex's battles/design, why would they want to do the same thing...only tuned for gear scores many don't possess yet. I also think a LOT of people can see this 'Savage' for what it is...poorly scaled content.

Personally, I WAS in a static....but there are like 4000 other things I'd rather do in this game, let alone in my personal life, then farm this bland content. Low-manning ex primals/binding coil, as an example is SOOOO much more fun and rewarding, and can be every bit as much of a challenge.

So no, Normal Mode isn't the problem....the actual design of Savage mode is.

PS: I'd also like to point out, if you Solo-queue DF Normal mode, depending on the box of chocolates you get, you could be working every bit as hard, if not harder than any savage raid group under the sun for your clear(esp if you are successful and counteract the inevitable wipe)....cause, the epic fail of some people knows no bounds. (mostly being funny with this...mostly).

[Sapphic]

True, but it DID take about as long for T5 to go down (legit), as it did A4S....and once SE saw the clear video, Twisters got an overhaul b/c even SE realized 'that isn't working right'

SE blocked access to turn 5 for a while to fix exploits some had used to clear it before which slowed down progression in there, otherwise it would have been cleared quicker than it was. It wasn't difficulty that slowed progression there it was the simple fact you could not go there.