How do you deal with sluggish tanks?

[Rin_Kuroi]

netflix. srsly. parks on rec goooooo!

[Malevicton]

If I'm on my whm I'll just give him a regen then start soloing the next group.

Don't worry sensitive tanks, I'm not pulling extra groups to you, or forcing you to tank them. I'm soloing them. Because it's dungeon trash. Because I can actually do that. Because regen is enough to heal you through the pittance that you pulled, so you don't need me there anymore. I may as well go do something else, like solo the next group. If you don't wanna feel pressured to pick up the extra group, then don't; I've got it covered.

[karateorangutang]

If I'm on my whm I'll just give him a regen then start soloing the next group.

Don't worry sensitive tanks, I'm not pulling extra groups to you, or forcing you to tank them. I'm soloing them. Because it's dungeon trash. Because I can actually do that. Because regen is enough to heal you through the pittance that you pulled, so you don't need me there anymore. I may as well go do something else, like solo the next group. If you don't wanna feel pressured to pick up the extra group, then don't; I've got it covered.

If you've stated that you'd prefer big pulls at the beginning and the rest of the party agrees then I would say your in the right.

If your just doing it without communicating, then i'm fine with not noticing the pull.

Communications solves 99% of these problems people. A good attitude also helps.

[bounddreamer]

I got Tam Tara last night on SCH and I told the paladin to pull as much as he wanted. It's Tam Tara. I had Selene out. We could've had a beast run.

He said he wasn't comfortable with big pulls bc he was new to tanking. So I let Selene take the wheel and dps'd the shit out of everything. It was still reasonably quick, just not the beast run I was hoping for.

If the tank isn't comfortable with big, fast pulls, just...dps. it'll be fine.

[Malevicton]

If you've stated that you'd prefer big pulls at the beginning and the rest of the party agrees then I would say your in the right.

If your just doing it without communicating, then i'm fine with not noticing the pull.

Communications solves 99% of these problems people. A good attitude also helps.

I tend to communicate. And the response tends to be " ".

If you don't wanna notice the pull that's fine. I consider it a bonus if the tank jumps in. I only pull extra if I know I can handle it.

It's not meant to be a passive agressive insult to the tank. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[karateorangutang]

I tend to communicate. And the response tends to be " ".

If you don't wanna notice the pull that's fine. I consider it a bonus if the tank jumps in. I only pull extra if I know I can handle it.

It's not meant to be a passive agressive insult to the tank. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well if the tank has the inability to communicate then that's fine too.

Communication is a 2 way street for everyone. Including us tanks.

[Kaisersoke]

while i may not like shadewalker... sluggish tanks is where it shines

[Rin_Kuroi]

I got Tam Tara last night on SCH and I told the paladin to pull as much as he wanted. It's Tam Tara. I had Selene out. We could've had a beast run.

He said he wasn't comfortable with big pulls bc he was new to tanking. So I let Selene take the wheel and dps'd the shit out of everything. It was still reasonably quick, just not the beast run I was hoping for.

If the tank isn't comfortable with big, fast pulls, just...dps. it'll be fine.

To be fair, no one has much in the way of aoe skills for tam tara. I think its faster to small pull and allow the healer to dps.

[Akei]

My personal experience is that the healer / DPS really set the pace for the dungeon.

As a tank, sure I go first ... but its upto them to do the majority of the actual killing of crap. In an Ideal world that is. I've found with DF that alot of the time I'll out DPS them (as a paladin sadly) and so the pace of the dungeon is really out of my control. Yes I'll pull the next pack right away (Honestly the ONLY thing I look at is healer MP, healer has 60%+ I'm good to pull) but when it takes 2mins+ to kill a pack of mobs ... well I cant be held accountable for that.

To be fair, its *very* rare that I use RoH combo on a paladin. For most run's I wont use it at all. DPS are just not even in the ballpark of pulling threat from me. Generally any pack of 5+ Mobs I'll be in Shield Oath for (Although I do use full str right side) and bosses I'll start and stay in Sword Oath for. Thats not saying *all* the DPS I get are wank .. just today I had a Bard unload on a fractal boss and snag aggro from me, awesome !!! A RoH combo and we were good. That said on the other bosses I did weave in a couple of RoH combos (Esp that stupid Mino since I move from his 360 swing) and we were golden. When I get great (Hell even good) DPS a dungeon run is fast. When the DPS is slacking it takes longer, hell theres only so much I can do as far as DPS goes /shrug.

Like other tanks here, I take the first pull as a guage to how many I should be pulling from there on. So if you slack on the first pull, expect me to pull light from then on.

People have mentioned Trees and Bees, generally I pull all of them, I do pay attention though and Hallowed / CD as required. I have to say *most* DPS are really good and focus down the Bees correctly, then I'll just drag the tree up the hill and kill it with the 2 totems and Vanu up there. Its rare that DPS dont kill bees first ... CD's will carry you through it though.

I've been pleased to see more and more Healers doing decent DPS now though, thats speeding runs up. Not all Healers DPS and its not something I *expect* of healers, Just really nice to see them laying in some hurt on pulls, makes me feel good about my CD usage that they are comfortable enough to CS and throw out some DPS between heals.

Bottom line though, tanks pull and hold hate, do what DPS we can. The overall *pace* or *speed* of a dungeon comes down to how fast crap dies .. and thats all about DPS. DPS players, Healers doing DPS and tanks pushing as much DPS as poss. When you get a group that does that its a fast run, for each part missing the run slows more and more. So in conclusion .. fast runs are not just about the tank, its a group effort.

And if a tank stops and stands infront of a boss ask him why if it bugs you so much. I know I did it yesterday, Healer was great and throwing out a ton of DPS on trash, mana management may not have been his strong suit though, so we hit the boss with him at 2K mana, so I waited until 9K (About 70%) before I pulled. No way was I irritated at the healer though, the 15s we had to wait was easy made up on the kill times from his added DPS on trash /shrug.

[Kaisersoke]

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Your opinion, but if you get, lets say, a paladin, a black mage, a summoner, and a scholar, and the tank decides to pull 3 mobs at a time, its certainly the tank setting the pace. The reason tanks set the pace is because it is frowned upon for a DPS to pull extra mobs when the tank has stopped. Yes, the damage dealers and healer most certainly effect the speed, but the pace and the speed are two different things. The pace is dictated solely by how the tank pulls, and the speed is what the rest of the party influences. For the example I provided above, its almost guaranteed that the completion speed would benefit from a faster pace, set by the tank by the pull size, because the group has several high potency AoE jobs. The thread is about dealing with sluggish tanks, and how to deal with their sluggish paces when the group is very capable of handling a quick pace.