3.x series needs a variety of endgame content.

[Voltyblast]

If 2-4 you are playing less than 5% of available content ingame. less than 40% of available HW "endgame" content.

That's debatable: a lot of people might or might not want to do half of those things. Would you really blame them for disliking one or two aspect of a game?

For example: I dislike pvp, gathering and crafting and I enjoy PvE (and RP: but is that endgame?). What choices do I have as a PvE player right now?

2 Expert Dungeons.
2 EX Primals
1 NM Raid
1 Savage raid

There's also the knights of the round fight but I forgot which roulette it was between trial or main scenario, so I can count them too.

Let's compare it to 2.X, to be specific I'm going to compare it to 2.1 (I will explain in the paragraph afterwards)

3 Expert dungeons
2 Hard dungeons (detail: right now hard dungeons only have 50 dungeons, so I can't really count them as endgame)
3 Hard Primals (detail: they were relevant and hard enough to be considered 50 content. )
3 EX Primals + Ultima weapon (Minstrel's Ballad)
1 (Savage) Raid
1 24m Raid
Relic Quest

Dailies technically were 44+ content, but I'm just going to let them out.

Now I will also be honest on one thing because 2.0 lacked as much content as 3.0 right now but there's an enormous difference here: 2.0 was the re-launch of the game, It was understandable if the game lacked content at launch because it was still trying to see if it worked better after the complete fiasco of 1.0. I understood where it came from and I was ok with it, as many other people probaby did as well and that's why people didn't complain as much as they do now.

But with 3.0 is different: it's an expansion, it should EXPAND the game, give NEW things, but instead it only gives the almost the same amount of content that we had on 2.0 without actually renewing anything at all (new stats? Customization of jobs skills? Menu improvement? Parser? ANYTHING at all?!). The reason why I compared 3.0 to 2.1 instead of 2.0 is because the content from 2.1 should've been from 3.0 PRONTO! We should've have enough content going on for at least 6 or more months, but instead you see people complaining, and rightfully so, about how lackluster the game is.
And those few extra additions like flying and workshop don't stand on their own.

So yes, you can probably do the other things that you mentioned but let's face it: different strokes for different folks, and those strokes are very limited so far.

[TheUltimate3]

Honestly SE should just bite the bullet and have a longer patch cycle.

There's no way they will be able to produce non-grindy content if they try to fit themselves into a 3 month window, and Crystal knows taking longer than 3 months to give us what they do will just piss people off more.

Their content cycles should be at least 4 to 6 months at best, then they can make the Savage Alexander as terrible to do as possible, at least 2 steps of the relic quests, and perhaps 1 or 2 midcore (I really hate that word btw) raids both of which CT size is scale/scope.

[Stanelis]

To me "endgame content" = "level 60 cap content, whether its DoW/M, DoL, DoH"

Let's make a list:
Bismark EX, obtaining all 13 weapons.
Ravana EX, obtaining all 13 weapons.
Alex(normal)
Alex(savage)
The Hunt HW Areas
blue scrips DoH
blue scrips DoL
red scrips DoH
red scrips DoL
PvP Rank 50
Anything that offers Esoterics as capping esoterics every week, falls under "endgame" progression.

So how much of this list do you go through on a daily/weekly basis?

.

None because it is plain boring and not entertaining. I'm currently waiting on 3.1 but if I don't see any improvement I won't renew my subscription.

[StrejdaTom]

Bismark EX, obtaining all 13 weapons.
Ravana EX, obtaining all 13 weapons.

The fact that we have to list such things to get atleast 10 things to do in expansion endgame shows what is so bad about expansion endgame lol.
We play themepark MMO but we constantly have to create our own goals and content like it was a sandbox.
And the redscrips aren't even needed, I can easily HQ furniture, food and pots with HQ gear with a few melds (used only 3CP materias that cost a few gil).. what else do I need? Doing redscrips is just another pseudoimportant content that has actually no meaning or impact on my possibilities.

IMO, grindy isn't the problem. The problem is the quality and variety of the grind available... There's potential for them to make something like the tomestone grind more varied, but instead we're stuck (unless you enjoy PvP) with two dungeons and a raid. There isn't enough there, and what little there is is quickly spoiled by the sheer linearity of the content...

Exactly this. I believe only a few people come to MMO not expecting a grind, at this moment only PvP has a bit of variety and considering how PvP is done in this game (and that it is considered a side content with not much attention), that's kinda surprising.

[Nalien]

There's no way they will be able to produce non-grindy content if they try to fit themselves into a 3 month window

IMO, grindy isn't the problem. The problem is the quality and variety of the grind available... There's potential for them to make something like the tomestone grind more varied, but instead we're stuck (unless you enjoy PvP) with two dungeons and a raid. There isn't enough there, and what little there is is quickly spoiled by the sheer linearity of the content...

Remove that 18h limit on Treasure Maps, and make them a viable alternative to farming Law/Esoterics, and we've got a new avenue to explore. Rework Hunts to be force popped, so you can pop and kill your B Rank, then obtain an item to pop a A Rank, then an S Rank, etc., and you have another.

I haven't touched Fractal or Neverreap a whole lot since Seal Rock was released. As a result, the last time I did them they were rather refreshing, and I actually wanted to do them again. Having Hunts as properly structured event, that people can pursue as an alternative to dungeon grinding, would do wonders for this game...

I think the other problem that dungeons specifically suffer from, is a lack of a secondary purpose... You know how I'm able to grind Seal Rock back to back? I mean, besides the dynamic nature of the matches make it far more varied than dungeons? PvP Standing. I'm not just in Seal Rock for Esoterics, I'm their for the PvP. That makes it far more rewarding than something like dungeons. The only other thing dungeons offer outside the tomestones, is the odd glamour piece, which more often is either Grand Company Seal fodder, or Desynthesis material. Simply put, dungeons don't have that secondary purpose present in any meaningful way. As a result, they're simply not well made for grinding, yet they're what SE expects more of its players to grind, sadly... That's another reason I'd like to see Hunts transformed into an actual structured event, Hunts have (or can have) that secondary purpose; You wouldn't just be popping S Ranks in order to get your tomestones, you'd be doing it for the Hunt specific rewards.

You know how I'd change dungeons? Take out the linear nature of them and add a secondary objective in them, centered around exploring, perhaps a bit of puzzle solving (and platforming? This game is awful for that though...). Gathering classes can obtain maps out on the field, why not let combat classes obtain them in dungeons? Now you're not just going through a dungeon to beat the boss and get you're rewards, you're looking around for secrets to obtain maps for additional reward. Maps obviously already have their own rewards, and they're very grindy to obtain, but stacking content up like this works very well to mask the grind. You're dungeon grind is no longer solely for tomestones, it also rewards you with additional Treasure Maps, which both speed up your tomestone grind and offer their own reward. I'd actually prefer this to my Seal Rock grind, actually, because PvP is just Seal Rock back to back, with this it would be; Dungeon > Treasure Map > Dungeon > Treasure Map. That's not the most amazing amount of variety, but it's something.

One other thing they could do with this, which could add a lot of variety to dungeons, is make the Treasure Maps lead into a dungeon. Just another Hullbreak Isle run? Oh wait, this person has a Treasure Map here, and we all get additional rewards for doing it. Suddenly dungeons have a bit of spice to them. Heck, if Hunts were actually properly structured, then optional bosses in dungeons could actually be a thing, you could do a similar thing; Optional boss already in the dungeon gives the party a pop item for a Hunt in the open world, or open world Hunt target drops pop item for a dungeon optional Hunt boss. That would be much more entertaining than running through Neverreap the exact same time every single time until it's phased out, and when it's phased out it could perhaps remain relevant off such content tie-ins alone.

[Daralii]

They know. Yoshida outright said in one of the more recent live letters that they're scrapping a dungeon per patch and putting those resources toward more varied content, starting with the airship exploration stuff.

[Rhaja]

@Nalien

Stuff like this for dungeons is all I want. Let us take extra objective's to add to the dungeons to spice it up. Let Duty Roulette be exempt from them because people, and actual queuing include these fun ideas.

Also, I'm really hoping the Exploration modes add some much needed life to end game. Right now it and relic are all I'm looking forward to for 3.1

[Dererk]

Gears of Wars sucks, I thought the Devs would bring something new with 2 and 3, but it's the same as 1! You just run from point a to b, shoot some aliens, watch cutscenes, save the world. 3 times over! STOP REHASHING!

Said no one ever.

First to point one thing out then I'll get back on topic. In Gears of War your not fighting aliens because the locust are originaly from the same world the people wer on they just never knew because they stayed underground pretty much their whole existence till the Lambant problem became too much. Also your comparing a MMORPG to a shooter?


Second. People have tried again and again to offer ideas on content to add. But pretty much people have been saying no. It also doesn't help that said content would be balanced to hell and high heaven with a middle ground so any combination of set up could clear it. People have also been suggesting stuff from ffxi (SE first MMORPG) but still people say no.

So. What you do when this is pretty much the majority on the forum where there's no point to suggest stuff cause people say no.

Complain.

[TheUltimate3]

Stuff

I agree with most of what you said, (while I love the random open world pops of rare monsters, force pops would be awesome and far more interesting.) my biggest thing is that at the end of the day, people will still get bored and thus complain about more things to be added, again far beyond the 3 month limit that is now imposed on the development team.

Putting treasure maps at the end of a dungeon would be awesome (provided every member of the group gets a map and not have to roll for it...) and removing the the limit on the maps would be ideal (I didn't even know there were limits. Then again, I don't have the mindset to pay for maps) I simply do not have the faith in the players themselves that this alone would be enough. Like everything else that is added, they'll like it at first but then grow bored.

MMO players today are lazy. Sucks but true. When given the opportunity, they will choose the path of least resistance. If they had to choose between going through a straight hallway with 10 esoterics at the end, but can be done in about 40 minutes, or solve a puzzle that provides the same 10 esoterics and a map but now takes 1 hour, they will choose the 10 esoterics in 40 minutes because then they can go do another dungeon and get another 10 esoterics.


/10char

[SendohJin]

Bismark EX, obtaining all 13 weapons.

how much does SE pay you? we should collect 13 inferior weapons to waste our inventory space so we have to buy more monthly retainers?

[Alex(savage)] - as often as possible when my semi-casual static can get together.
[Alex(normal)] - capped every week since release
[red scrips DoH] - capped every week since release
[red scrips DoL] - capped every week since release

The four of these were all done more than 2 weeks ago
[Ravana EX, obtaining all 13 weapons.] - have every weapon for every job that's 60 or have Eso weapon.
[The Hunt HW Areas] - so much that i've used seals to upgrade Law gear for jobs that are not even 60 yet.
[blue scrips DoH] - have every Master Craft 3 for crafting jobs i have at 60
[blue scrips DoL] - have every folklore thing that's not fishing, i don't fish

[PvP Rank 50] - i don't PvP

so a primarily PvE game and the only thing i should be doing is PvP?