Lets nerf WAR :D

[Izsha]

A good WAR choses the number of overwhelms properly and gets both more emnity and DPS for X number of GCDs than DRK or lolPLD.

I love how you compared PLD to the other two and considered flash equal to the other dspite Flash not dealing any dmaage whatsoever, yea sure by that assessment WAR is dead weight except oh wait still ahead of DRK.

Cover everything or dont cover anything.

Also, insert homogenisation image macro from 3-4 pages ago. It's not the numbers, it's how the class plays.

I never said anything about damage. I'm talking about each tanks ability to do the fundamental task of generating aoe and single target threat. Pld and drk have separate bucket for each task, and the ST bucket refills the AOE bucket QUICKLY. War, for whatever reason was designed with 1 bucket for both tasks and it would be a little wierd if maim gave you 100 tp to mirror the aoe threat resource regen function of riot blade and friend. So we have Equalibrium instead.

Go do A2S on war and 'ration' your overpowers without the tp regen from equalibrium. 3 gcds of flash does not magically recover enough tp to function in a prolonged 10 min endurance fight to perform fundamental aoe threat management.

I am only talking about equalibrium and resource management. If you want to go join the damage QQ support group there's plenty of other people willing to fight and cry with you over that. I don't care to wade into that sea of crap. The fact that flash does no damage is irrelivant to my point that all tanks need a fundamental way to generate both aoe and single target threat in a prolonged instance. If you take equalibrium you have to put it back in some other way to maintain that bare minimum tank functionality.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

WARs, you are currently best

WAR being the most powerful tank isn't what's in contention. Any honest, experienced, player will likely agree that WAR is the most powerful tank.

What is in contention is whether or not WAR is more powerful than it should be; that would warrant a nerf.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

What is in contention is whether or not WAR is more powerful than it should be; that would warrant a nerf.

This guy is using big words and I like it.

[Syzygian]

A fundamental change of tone which I think this thread should have opened with:

WARs, you are currently best or close to best at just about every aspect of tanking, from DPS both single target and AoE, emnity both single target and AoE, to utility and universal damage mitigation.

What, if you had to get lose something, would be the thing you would be most OK with losing.

Editing in. :P damage is probably done though. xD

[Syzygian]

WAR being the most powerful tank isn't what's in contention. Any honest, experienced, player will likely agree that WAR is the most powerful tank.

What is in contention is whether or not WAR is more powerful than it should be; that would warrant a nerf.

I feel like it is. WAR is considerably more potent of a tank than both DRK and PLD. PLD and DRK are the ones that are on more or less equal footing, the main thing keeping PLD from seeing usage isn't its design, but the design of raids. When one tank is way ahead of the other's its overpowered, it doesn't make the other two tanks underpowered. Now if DRK and WAR were both "overpowered" and PLD seemed poor in comparison to both, that'd be a different story, or if they buff PLD and DRK ends up in that place, then again, different story. Currently it is WAR that is the outlier. Frankly its all subjective. Its either this or the flood of buff PLD threads, and buff DRK (completely unnecessary imo), to a lesser extent. But it makes more sense to me to nerf a single job than to have to buff two others, which only seem like underperformers in the shadow of WAR.

I've said it elsewhere but it bears repeating. Every job in this game has strengths and weaknesses, not just PLD and DRK, but WAR currently has all strengths, and no genuine weaknesses. Its balance isn't just for the sake of the other tanks, but the entire game, imo.

I would go so far as to flip your argument over and say why SHOULD WAR be SO MUCH more powerful than the other tanks, OVERALL in both MT and OT DPS while being equal in mitigation/equal in utility?

[MeeYow]

I never said anything about damage. I'm talking about each tanks ability to do the fundamental task of generating aoe and single target threat. Pld and drk have separate bucket for each task, and the ST bucket refills the AOE bucket QUICKLY. War, for whatever reason was designed with 1 bucket for both tasks and it would be a little wierd if maim gave you 100 tp to mirror the aoe threat resource regen function of riot blade and friend. So we have Equalibrium instead.

Go do A2S on war and 'ration' your overpowers without the tp regen from equalibrium. 3 gcds of flash does not magically recover enough tp to function in a prolonged 10 min endurance fight to perform fundamental aoe threat management.

I am only talking about equalibrium and resource management. If you want to go join the damage QQ support group there's plenty of other people willing to fight and cry with you over that. I don't care to wade into that sea of crap. The fact that flash does no damage is irrelivant to my point that all tanks need a fundamental way to generate both aoe and single target threat in a prolonged instance. If you take equalibrium you have to put it back in some other way to maintain that bare minimum tank functionality.

Edit: I copied the wrong name and got the wrong stats, so based on your gear I am guessing you have done A2S, but that kind of makes things worse:


If you have done A2S you would know AS I POINTED OUT PAGES AGO that emnity is an extremely minor issue because most of the mobs are instantly stunned by a move called temporary insanity from the gobwalker. So any move that deals zero damage and only generates hate is borderline useless. Ring any bells? (Answer: Flash)

Edit 2: I left in bitchy tome farming related section assuming you werent doing savage, it wasn't relevant so I removed it.
The point was: Let's not balance classes around tome roulette, but you weren't trying to, apologies.

Dare I say you ignored damage because it undermines your entire point? Include every aspect of balance or dont comment at all.
Excluding any point of the class is the obvious way of telling the community you are trying to play the numbers or flat out lie.

It is clearly not a basic or fundamental requirement that the class has equilibrium TP to generate hate as shown in all of the 2.x patch line.

[Giantbane]

The way WAR plays feels good, the way the abilities interact with each other feels good, the class has good flexibility in terms of damage vs. tanking, the class has good utility and the class can manage its resources well

Why would you want to change this? This should be the ideal that PLD/DRK design aspires to.

[MeeYow]

WAR being the most powerful tank isn't what's in contention. Any honest, experienced, player will likely agree that WAR is the most powerful tank.

What is in contention is whether or not WAR is more powerful than it should be; that would warrant a nerf.

Based on the fundamental design of other classes having a weakness OR a strength, yes, Warrior has to have a weakness. If war MUST be top dps then it also MUST be bad at something else.

I would much rather PLD and DRK were raised to WARs level but queue the masses of crybabies that don't understand the concept of homogenisation but are willing to cry anyway.

My argument would be:
Do PLD and DRK on average appear to be on the same level if you ignore current raid design? Yes, kinda.
Is WAR in the same spot? No. Uh oh.

@ Syz, <edited out because I just read OP and understand what you meant>

@ Giant, yes, this is one way of doing things, but if they arent, which SE doesn't want them to, there is too much of a good thing, you cannot have one classe be good at X whilst weak at Y, but WAR be good at both.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

@ Gooner, no idea what you are on about, I corrected some spellings because smartphones have to troll on spellings, is that it?

I was referring to the word "Contention". I didn't know what it meant and had to look it up. I like when people use big words.

#KalmDown #ItsJustTheForums

[MeeYow]

I was referring to the word "Contention". I didn't know what it meant and had to look it up. I like when people use big words.

#KalmDown #ItsJustTheForums

Oh sorry, everyday word for me on the job, heck google told me it meant a heated debate and I thought it just meant chatting.

Sorry man, #themoreyouknow

EDIT: GOONER! I got the wrong person i meant SYZ, you didn't even quote me, sorry lol. My bad, my bad!

I dont know what SYZ's:

'Editing in. :P damage is probably done though. xD'

is trying to get at, tiny bit vauge.