Sustain on SMN

[Saggo]

Right.

Awesome. Glad you agree.

Although I put Regen on my co-healer Fairies and on some pets when I have enough time, I really think pets weren't designed to need any heals besides the ones from its owner. You should ask for a buff to Sustain, defense or HP regeneration on pets, not "blame it on the healers". If we were truly supposed to heal pets, they would be on our party list too, not only yours.

It's for those reasons that no pet owner should be critical of a healer if the pet does die. While I never blamed it on the healers here, if we were truly not supposed to heal pets, they wouldn't be targetable and you wouldn't see HP at all. As it stands, you can target pets (AoE as well) and you do have ways to see HP.

[Cynfael]

Most cases of pet mortality can be linked directly back to poor management on the part of the owner; it's really hard to get a summon killed if you're paying attention to placement.

AoE heals are almost always sufficient to keep pets alive under normal circumstances. A lot of the resistance to the idea of healing pets is likely stemming from the significant resentment many healers already feel over being relied upon to save others from the consequences of their own horrible gameplay.

[FaizeD]

Yeah, I'm not going to single target heal your pet. Everything that could kill them is avoidable with proper placement. And you could always *gasp* re-summon it. The only people that need to "git good" are the pet owners who can't manage their pets and expect healers to carry them.

[Saggo]

Most cases of pet mortality can be linked directly back to poor management on the part of the owner; it's really hard to get a summon killed if you're paying attention to placement.

AoE heals are almost always sufficient to keep pets alive under normal circumstances. A lot of the resistance to the idea of healing pets is likely stemming from the significant resentment many healers already feel over being relied upon to save others from the consequences of their own horrible gameplay.

Fortunately, no one is arguing its our responsibility to carry bad players. Just like it's the responsibility of a melee DPS to avoid mechanics as able, a pet owner should maintain their pet, but that reason does not justify saying in regard to pets a healer has zero responsibility in any capacity.

As a caveat, there is no placing Ifrit to avoid mechanics, every boss has mechanics.

Yeah, I'm not going to single target heal your pet.

You can obviously do whatever you want, but let's not pretend that excuses taking no action.

And,

Everything that could kill them is avoidable with proper placement.

Shit happens. To everyone.

[FaizeD]

You can obviously do whatever you want, but let's not pretend that excuses taking no action.

Listen, my love, when you progress past your shitty i170 gear and DREX accessories, you can lecture me about what is excusable for a healer.

Shit happens. To everyone.

Yes, and when it happens to you, then you absorb the cost of that mistake. Particularly when it's so easy for you to correct on your own by just re-summoning your pet or having the bare minimum of raid awareness.

I'm wondering what content it is you actually do that keeps killing your precious Egi. You must be truly terrible.

[Saggo]

Oh good. We got to the insult other people part of the thread. Classy move.

[Cynfael]

As a caveat, there is no placing Ifrit to avoid mechanics, every boss has mechanics.

On the contrary, placing Ifrit correctly is extremely important. This is how you avoid having him eat cleaves, which are one of the only mechanics that can actually threaten him.

The only circumstance under which I find it necessary to throw a targeted heal of some kind to a pet is when the SMN is very inexperienced or perhaps lazy (or, rarely, the horrible tank is dancing in circles and making it impossible for the poor SMN to position to avoid cleaves). I'll give a few "benefit of the doubt" heals, but if the situation continues and is the SMN's fault, I will eventually stop helping. Chances are that if the SMN is that bad, my personal DPS exceeds theirs if I stop wasting time healing their pet.

[Saggo]

On the contrary, placing Ifrit correctly is extremely important. This is how you avoid having him eat cleaves, which are one of the only mechanics that can actually threaten him.

Cleaves are an exception, not the rule. Plenty of non-cleave AoE mechanics such that it's not worth the DPS loss to micro-manage Ifrit's position. And it should go without saying but I'll say it, when solely regarding damage taken, there are times Garuda is better DPS.

The only circumstance under which I find it necessary to throw a targeted heal of some kind to a pet is when the SMN is very inexperienced or perhaps lazy.

AoE heals trivalize the necessity of single-target heals, since pets are pretty durable. But not having to actively worry about it isn't the same as actively refusing to do it. Refusing, in general, is poor sportsmanship.

[Cynfael]

Cleaves are an exception, not the rule. Plenty of non-cleave AoE mechanics such that it's not worth the DPS loss to micro-manage Ifrit's position. And it should go without saying but I'll say it, when solely regarding damage taken, there are times Garuda is better DPS.

This lines up with what I've already said. No, you aren't expected to move your summon for every yellow circle, but you don't need to for aforementioned reasons.

Garuda vs. Ifrit is both another discussion entirely and dependent on the situation. Survivability is not the major factor in that decision, either; the only case in which Ifrit is a real challenge in that sense is when the SMN positions him poorly or forgets to adjust him if the tank changes position.

AoE heals trivalize the necessity of single-target heals, since pets are pretty durable. But not having to actively worry about it isn't the same as actively refusing to do it. Refusing, in general, is poor sportsmanship.

I wouldn't take people here too literally. If something unforeseen happens, I'm sure that most players who notice a problem will pitch in; after all, if they think about it, they'd rather have the SMN remain focused on DPS rather than stopping to resummon it (if the SMN is playing well, Swiftcast should more or less constantly be on CD). What I believe usually happens is that the SMN loses their pet because they handled it poorly and then wonders why the healer wasn't helping. An average healer probably has minimal or no awareness of a SMN's pet because they rarely ever die in the first place.

Anyway, to tie all of this together, I believe that it is the primary responsibility of the SMN to manage their pet correctly. A good healer will help if something unexpected happens, but there's a reasonable limit to how much help should be expected from that quarter.

[Saggo]

Survivability is not the major factor in that decision, either; the only case in which Ifrit is a real challenge in that sense is when the SMN positions him poorly or forgets to adjust him if the tank changes position.

Hence the "solely" part, I only brought it up since someone would undoubtedly argue "use Garuda" (prolly vaguely derogative) if it wasn't spelled out.

I wouldn't take people here too literally.

I would, but some people leave very little room to.

Anyway, to tie all of this together, I believe that it is the primary responsibility of the SMN to manage their pet correctly. A good healer will help if something unexpected happens, but there's a reasonable limit to how much help should be expected from that quarter.

That works fine, although we now have 3 pet jobs to look at. I would qualify it as needed instead of just something unexpected happens, since as needed encompasses not only the unexpected but also keeping the party high-speed. It's splitting hairs, though.