Sustain on SMN

[Saggo]

Oh good. We got to the insult other people part of the thread. Classy move.

[Saggo]

On the contrary, placing Ifrit correctly is extremely important. This is how you avoid having him eat cleaves, which are one of the only mechanics that can actually threaten him.

Cleaves are an exception, not the rule. Plenty of non-cleave AoE mechanics such that it's not worth the DPS loss to micro-manage Ifrit's position. And it should go without saying but I'll say it, when solely regarding damage taken, there are times Garuda is better DPS.

The only circumstance under which I find it necessary to throw a targeted heal of some kind to a pet is when the SMN is very inexperienced or perhaps lazy.

AoE heals trivalize the necessity of single-target heals, since pets are pretty durable. But not having to actively worry about it isn't the same as actively refusing to do it. Refusing, in general, is poor sportsmanship.

[Cynfael]

Cleaves are an exception, not the rule. Plenty of non-cleave AoE mechanics such that it's not worth the DPS loss to micro-manage Ifrit's position. And it should go without saying but I'll say it, when solely regarding damage taken, there are times Garuda is better DPS.

This lines up with what I've already said. No, you aren't expected to move your summon for every yellow circle, but you don't need to for aforementioned reasons.

Garuda vs. Ifrit is both another discussion entirely and dependent on the situation. Survivability is not the major factor in that decision, either; the only case in which Ifrit is a real challenge in that sense is when the SMN positions him poorly or forgets to adjust him if the tank changes position.

AoE heals trivalize the necessity of single-target heals, since pets are pretty durable. But not having to actively worry about it isn't the same as actively refusing to do it. Refusing, in general, is poor sportsmanship.

I wouldn't take people here too literally. If something unforeseen happens, I'm sure that most players who notice a problem will pitch in; after all, if they think about it, they'd rather have the SMN remain focused on DPS rather than stopping to resummon it (if the SMN is playing well, Swiftcast should more or less constantly be on CD). What I believe usually happens is that the SMN loses their pet because they handled it poorly and then wonders why the healer wasn't helping. An average healer probably has minimal or no awareness of a SMN's pet because they rarely ever die in the first place.

Anyway, to tie all of this together, I believe that it is the primary responsibility of the SMN to manage their pet correctly. A good healer will help if something unexpected happens, but there's a reasonable limit to how much help should be expected from that quarter.

[Saggo]

Survivability is not the major factor in that decision, either; the only case in which Ifrit is a real challenge in that sense is when the SMN positions him poorly or forgets to adjust him if the tank changes position.

Hence the "solely" part, I only brought it up since someone would undoubtedly argue "use Garuda" (prolly vaguely derogative) if it wasn't spelled out.

I wouldn't take people here too literally.

I would, but some people leave very little room to.

Anyway, to tie all of this together, I believe that it is the primary responsibility of the SMN to manage their pet correctly. A good healer will help if something unexpected happens, but there's a reasonable limit to how much help should be expected from that quarter.

That works fine, although we now have 3 pet jobs to look at. I would qualify it as needed instead of just something unexpected happens, since as needed encompasses not only the unexpected but also keeping the party high-speed. It's splitting hairs, though.

[ChazNatlo]

So uh... just to check, not to argue: I use a controller to play. It just feels more organic to me, and I tend to get lost with a full keyboard of keys. Since this admittedly means I can't point and click, it means I have a bit more difficulty placing my pet. Since the argument seems to have swayed into "Keep your Pet alive" should I take the bit of extra time adjusting my Pet's positioning in movement heavy fights like Midgarsormer or just keep heel and attack on the go? Obviously this is above and beyond it catching AOE heals and trying to keep it sustained, without hurting my MP too much.

[Houston009]

Pets are the owner's responsibility, no one else's.

I don't care if MCHs can bring their turrets back on [a] whim, they're getting healed too.

lol.

[Velox]

I'm just curious, but based on responses I'm seeing in this thread, just how much damage are your pets taking in a single fight?

I've run countless raids and I have NEVER seen pets get so low to the point where they risk dying from natural causes. Pets are immune to like 95% of the damage of AoE attacks. The only real threat to pets are direct hits (if it's tanking) or cleaves (if it gets clipped). The former should only be happening if it's Titan-egi and only under unique circumstances. The latter just means you really need to get better at placement or the tank needs to stop spinning the enemy.


Seriously though, if a pet just happens to take a wack to the face (because it happens), they are going to lose 25-30% HP at the MOST. Sustain is more than enough. Hell, it exists specifically for that reason, as a patch-job. If you're pet is taking that much damage to a point where Sustain can't even keep up, you're doing something grossly wrong (and probably should just change jobs to something that lacks pet-management).

[Neophyte]

The only contents where e.g. Garuda eats a lot of damage is Keeper of the Lake and Shiva Ex, if it gets hit by many AoEs.

But I let it rather die one time and resummon it with Swiftcast, than using like 3-5 GCDs for Sustain in a fight.
At least when I'm synched to lvl 50... with lvl 60 i'd rather waste my MP with additional Ruin3s.

[Saggo]

I'm just curious, but based on responses I'm seeing in this thread, just how much damage are your pets taking in a single fight?

The root of the argument is not "my pet is dying", the root argument is healers keep people functional. The simplest example is a healer is expected to clear a WAR's Pacification when that has nothing to do with getting to the end alive.

People treat the responsibility like it's binary, like it can only be either or between two players. So you get stuff like it's the owner's responsibility anda no one else's, when the logical extension of healers keep people functional is the complete opposite.

Sustain being enough for upkeep just means the healer doesn't have to worry, not the right to outright refuse. Same for healing other players, being in cleric stance, and not seeing HP bars in party list. The fact that pets are durable just means it's an easy responsibility.

But I let it rather die one time and resummon it with Swiftcast, than using like 3-5 GCDs for Sustain in a fight.
At least when I'm synched to lvl 50... with lvl 60 i'd rather waste my MP with additional Ruin3s.

Biggest issue with that is Swiftcast should be used at a bare minimum with Shadow Flare, and using it in a Dreadwyrm Trance rotation is not out of the question. That means Swiftcast is usually on cooldown when you need it for a Resummon, or even Ressurection.

should I take the bit of extra time adjusting my Pet's positioning in movement heavy fights like Midgarsormer or just keep heel and attack on the go?

Heel is almost always enough because you're usually trying to be where the damage is not.

[shadowrell_d-_-b]

Lmao like how this thread went from a buff to sustain (which I actually agree with) to a clearly bad SMN whine about how heals should now not only heal the tank and party members aswell as dps to help kill things faster but also heal egis because "git gud" is now a thing you say to sound cool whilst you play your class like crap.

Last I checked as a sch (that actually manages their pet) I have to place, obey and heel my fairy numerous times in a fight all while also healing dpsng dodging the same mechanics you are, so why are you not good enough to know when to heel your pet so they don't take unneeded damage? You have one job (do damage) You have to do this whilst also dodging avoidable damage so keeping you pet out of danger should be nothing I never lose my pet to damage, as a SMN you have the same tools I have to keep your egi alive stop being lazy and use them, also sustain should be used before your pet is close to dying not to save its life from death because you were not paying attention to it the whole fight.