The Real Problem with Parsers

[Clarkamite]

Nothing wrong with parsing. If you think parsing is going to to turn an otherwise well adjusted, wonderfully nice and friendly player into a raving maniac who demands you increase your dps by 5.7% or face the votekick wrath, you are delusional. Someone who is rude is gonna be rude, they don't need a parser to justify themselves.

No no no, that's incorrect. If you have a parser you could literally be Mr. Rogers and the nicest guy or gal in the world but the second you turn it on you turn into The Incredible Hulk and just start breaking faces. Everyone knows this.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

No no no, that's incorrect. If you have a parser you could literally be Mr. Rogers and the nicest guy or gal in the world but the second you turn it on you turn into The Incredible Hulk and just start breaking faces. Everyone knows this.

You can't blame the tool for a player's behaviour. That's on the same level as blaming a bicycle while cyclists are ignoring traffic rules.

I haven't bothered reading through 38 pages worth of yes-no-yes-no arguments, so I'll drop my 2 cents here: Stop looking at a possible witch hunt that may or may not be initiated by a selective group of people - Hooligans among football fans or literal medieval witch hunting. A parser tool could be useful for those who want to improve their damage output and get out of the so called "scrub zone". If such tools did not exist, no one would have created these "optimal DPS rotation guides" that's all over the place. Prime example being the dragoon topic here. Sure, you can create a rotation based on just theory, but this would create questions as why the rotation in question is "the best" and people start pulling out their spreadsheet programs based on average numbers they put out they see on screen. You could say they're manually "parsing". Such tools would just make it easier and help those improve for those who want to improve. Not only that, if said tools are presented on a silver platter, it may even motivate players to improve more. It takes far less effort and time than using spreadsheets, after all. For those who do not want to improve should not be surprised if they can't beat current- or last patch content till gear makes it completely obsolete. Nor should they be surprised if they get kicked out from parties for being the main cause for failing DPS checks for certain encounters. Which can be argued with what the OP started with what can be roughly translated into "I play like how I want to play". Such comments are double edged. If you choose how you want to play, then the same applies to others and who they decide to play with.

[RapBreon]

An easy way I've found for saying 'dont do this' is to just say what the problem is and making sure everyone is aware of it:

"We can't have the death zone on the healers, so please everyone watch out for that when it goes out"

Or something like that.

I suppose. The people I've spent lots of my time playing vidya with over the years; typically don't appreciate it just as much. Being said, they'd bitch about anything, so that might be the problem.

[Clarkamite]

You can't blame the tool for a player's behaviour. That's on the same level as blaming a bicycle while cyclists are ignoring traffic rules.

I don't know if you thought I was serious or not but I wasn't. I was being completely sarcastic. I've been on the side of parsing since day one.

[Gorlioliolio]

These are the stupidest threads ever, got through 15 pages before I couldn't take it anymore so let me sum it up for anyone skipping to the end.


Bad Player - "I don't want parsers, people will kick me from groups"

Good Player - "But if you have parsers then you can improve and people won't kick you from groups as often"

Bad Player - "I don't want to improve, I want to push 1 2 3 repeatedly and waste everyones time"

Good Player - "But you are wasting multiple peoples time, over and over again, including your own"

Bad Player - "I don't care I pay my $15 each month to do what I want, if you kick me your a selfish elitist prick"

Good Player - "You do realize that wasting 3 peoples time is more selfish than wasting 1 persons time right?"

Bad Player - "How do you know I'm the one wasting peoples time, are you parsing? I'm gonna report you"

Good Player - Initiates votekick

Bad Player - Sits at GC house or idyllshire for 30 minutes while complaining on the forums that they got kicked

Other people on the forums - "You know if you had parsers you could try to improve and people wouldn't kick you"

Bad Player - "Your all elitist selfish pricks and I'm gonna report everyone"

Other people on forums - "There are multiple guides/youtube videos available to help you improve your gameplay, watch some, try it out maybe in the future people won't kick you all it takes is a little effort on your part"

Bad Player - "HARDCORE ELITIST A-HOLES"

[Aiselia]

Now let me sum it up.

Side A: WE NEED PARSERS SO WE CAN KICK PEOPLE FOR BEING BAD AND WASTING FIVE MORE MINUTES OF MY TIME
Side B: But that's exactly the kind of treatment SE wants to avoid
Side A: THEY SHOULD GET OVER IT GIVE US PARSERS SO WE CAN KICK PEOPLE FOR BEING BAD
Side B: But you're just proving SE right by saying that
Side A: I DON'T CARE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T AFFECT ME IN ANY NEGATIVE WAY AND ANYONE IT DOES IS WEAK GIMME PARSERS
Side B: But -
Side A: PARSERS DON'T MAKE PEOPLE JERKS, JERKS MAKE PEOPLE JERKS WE WILL NOT BE JERKS
Side B: But you're already acting like -
Side A: SEE? PEOPLE ARE JERKS ALREADY GIVE PARSERS
Side B: But that's the kind of people that shouldn't get -
Side A: LOL UR JUST SCARED UR DPS IS CRAP SO U WILL BE KICKED YOU TERRIBAD
Side B: I'm a tank.

Also something about people thinking a video of one person doing a handful of runs negates 10 years of stories of elitism encountered simply because of confirmation bias.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

snip

Some guy who posted before you made the exact opposite of it. So by the statement of "the kind of treatment SE wants to avoid", you could make the same claim about the contrary.

So here's a situation where a parser may or may not come in handy:
There's a DPS check mechanic for a certain encounter, your party keeps wiping on it. Why, who and/or how?

[Gorlioliolio]

Some guy who posted before you made the exact opposite of it. So by the statement of "the kind of treatment SE wants to avoid", you could make the same claim about the contrary.

So here's a situation where a parser may or may not come in handy:
There's a DPS check mechanic for a certain encounter, your party keeps wiping on it. Why, who and/or how?

Sastasha HM or Qarn HM for example, I have had dps who fail so incredibly hard you can't pass the dps checks on the 2nd bosses. I have kicked dps at these 2 bosses after wiping a couple times, trying to explain their basic rotations to the people, wiping again and eventually getting fed up. Was I wrong to kick them? I don't think so but all these people who seem to think that playing terribly and wasting other peoples time is their self entitled right by paying their subscription would disagree with me.

[Aiselia]

Some guy who posted before you made the exact opposite of it.

I know. That's why i did it.

Kicking someone for not performing their role

People don't argue against parsers because people who auto-attack may get kicked. They argue against parsers because people who may be doing what they think is right may get kicked because some random person arbitrarily decides it's not good enough for them.

[Gorlioliolio]

Why are you so afraid of people parsing you? Do you hate putting in effort? Are you incredibly lazy? Are you absolutely terrible?

Let's completely ignore parsers, let's say your tank comes in, no tank stance, full str gear, never uses a cooldown, can't hold agro at all and refuses to listen to any advice, would you kick him?

Let's say the healer just lets the tank die over and over, your group keeps wiping to the first trash pull and the healer doesn't improve after a couple wipes, do you kick him?

If you say yes to either of these you are a huge hypocrite. Kicking someone for not performing their role shouldn't be exclusive to tanks and healers, if someone is underperforming so obviously that it is going to waste 10-15 minutes of not only my times, but 2 other peoples time as well why shouldn't we be allowed to kick them? Is it not the same thing?