Shadow wall needs an additional effect.

[ArdorGrey]

Defiance adds the same effective HP as Grit and Shield Oath, in addition to being oGCD while the others are GCD. So, percentage wise, taking the same hit unmitigated is going to look the same on a PLD as a DRK as a WAR, if they are all in respective tank stances.

This is flat out not true, but it's widely perpetuated because hey, anything to make War look even better than it is and justify further buffs for pld, right?

The ehp was slightly lower even back in 2.0.

It also doesn't affect healing from skills, and almost all of the healers new kit is skills. So, it's worse than it's ever been.


The ogcd thing is great, but War's don't gain the hp discrepancy when swapping into defiance and instantly lose any extra when swapping back. Having 20% DR on instant demand would be ludicrously powerful. I really think a lot of people clamouring for this don't look at the very many very real drawbacks War's tank stance has compared to the others.

For all the complaints about Inner beast being brokenly powerful on demand damage reduction, there sure are a lot of paladins that complain about their own on demand gcd eating damage reduction to be clunky and awkward, even though the mp cost is far less prohibitive than burning 5 wrath stacks and you don't have to be in melee range of a target to activate it.

I'm not saying pld isn't in a rough spot right now, but if you're going to draw comparisons at least make them fair and educated ones, much like you were able to do when looking at the raging strikes situation.

[carbonx]

This is flat out not true, but it's widely perpetuated because hey, anything to make War look even better than it is and justify further buffs for pld, right?

I don't believe I referred to buffing PLD at all in this thread. Please quote me if I somehow posted it unknowingly in a fit of insanity.

Let's math for a second. All tanks have gear which puts them at 18k HP. Defiance puts the War at 22.5k HP, but increases healing by 25% to make up for the discrepancy in HP. Shield Oath/Grit keeps them at 18k HP, but grants them the additional boon of 20% mitigation. They take a hit of 8k. WAR will drop to 14.5k, or 64% of their HP. DRK/PLD will take 6.4k, dropping them to 11.6k, 64% of their HP.

The only real difference is that WARs don't instantly max their HP until they are healed, which you stated. But they have tools like Equilibrium and the ability to preplan Defiance use to counter this.

[Launched]

Defiance puts the War at 22.5k HP, but increases healing by 25% to make up for the discrepancy in HP.

Defiance only increases healing by 20%, and that increase doesn't work on abilities like Lustrate, Tetragrammaton and Essential Dignity.

[carbonx]

Defiance only increases healing by 20%, and that increase doesn't work on abilities like Lustrate, Tetragrammaton and Essential Dignity.

My mistake, then, I could have sworn it was a flat 25% to match.
Regardless, Defiance will still act as the same eHP as Shield Oath and Grit, which was my original point.

[MeeYow]

Defiance only increases healing by 20%, and that increase doesn't work on abilities like Lustrate, Tetragrammaton and Essential Dignity.

I covered this back on the first page, EHP is even, E healing WAR gets slightly less from spells (4%) and significantly less from abilities.

As a side note this is typically used as a central argument for justifying WARs current state whilst simultaneously requesting a fix. Which would you rather have?

[Launched]

I covered this back on the first page, EHP is even, E healing WAR gets slightly less from spells (4%) and significantly less from abilities.

As a side note this is typically used as a central argument for justifying WARs current state whilst simultaneously requesting a fix. Which would you rather have?

Depends. PLD gets Oaths put off GCD? WAR healing needs to be changed. Currently it's fine.