A SMN More Like Dissidia Yuna

[KaedrianLiang]

while we are on the topic of Yuna, YUNA GLAMOUR PLLZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SoloWingMetatron]

The one thing that I've wished for the devs to do to SMN is simply change the animations/names of the abilities to something that fits better. The effect of all of SMN's abilities shouldn't change or else it would completely change the job itself, which at this point is realistically not going to happen.

Personally, I don't really think that the whole "Poison" aesthetic to SMN's primary skills (Bio, Bio II, Miasma, Bane, Fester, Virus...) doesn't really fit the aesthetic of the job itself. Why not have the DoTs change their name, icon, and animation depending on what pet you have summoned? Burn (Bio), Burn II (Bio II), Scorch (Miasma) for Ifrit, Choke (Bio), Choke II (Bio II), Vortex (Miasma) for Garuda, Rasp (Bio), Rasp II (Bio II), Sand Trap (Miasma) for Titan. Change Fester, Bane, and Virus to more generic elemental-sounding stuff like Astral Burst, Aetherbane, Enfeeble.

Something along those lines. Doesn't change the mechanics of the class at all but would fit better with the aesthetic that I think a lot of players want out of summoners. If we can't focus on the pet for the class's mechanics, at least have us use abilities that feel like we're drawing on the power of our pets.

Yeah I agree with this, I think the real problem for me is that SMN is still kinda stuck in limbo, suffering from an identity crisis. This focus on "poison" style abilities kinda shows this. Elemental DoT's that changed visuals depending on the Egi summoned would help make a more clear, solidified image (artistically) without doing a complete job overhaul. It is a big ask after all, but wanted to post my idea to help give an example of how there are ways to implement an Egi focused SMN that is viable and works with the games established mechanics. Though I am sure there are a number of ways this could be achieved. It would be great if at least for SMN lvl70 abilities the Egi get the spotlight

Let's say maybe instead of Tri-Bind, it could of been Tri-Summon but not in the sense of summoning all three but rather that Ifrit/Garuda/Titan would be on a triangle say Garuda-Titan-Ifrit, when you use Tri-Summon it automatically summons the next pet in the triangle that pet no MP cost, no waiting, no use of your global timer and the recast could be 90-120 seconds or also use aetherflow charge to perform.. In this case the triangle is Garuda would become Titan, Titan would become Ifrit and Ifrit would become Garuda.

In this sense you could open with Ifrit use Rouse and Spur until it runs out and then "Tri-Summon" Garuda and apply your DoT or you could start with Garuda, apply DoT and any buffs to enhance it along with Contagion and then Bane and then Swift Cast summon Ifrit, use Ifrit until Contagion is up again then "Tri-Summon" Garuda and use her. In this basic sense you create a means of juggling pets that doesn't eat up MP and it supports the idea of using other pets, while yes in this bare bone change Titan is still left out however if Summoner had a tweak as small as this then other abilities could be introduced to encourage the use of Titan rather than going in the direction of focusing more on the player rather than the pet.

I rather like your idea of Tri-Summon, it would be way more useful than the current Tri-Bind (A skill I only really use in PvP occasionally) It really is a wasted skill slot and could be replaced with something far more useful like a swift summon. Juggling Egi mid fight would be so cool and that alone would give more of a focus to the Egi.

while we are on the topic of Yuna, YUNA GLAMOUR PLLZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol yeah this would be quite fabulous! I play as a male Au Ra so could not use said glamour. Maybe they could implement a Seymour robe to accompany the Yuna garb?

[Akiza]

I agree with these ideas because for the most part Summoners are Final Fantasy version of the Sorcerer in aesthetics while the Black Mage is more the Wizard the difference being Summoner focus is on Elemental AoE and Crowd Control and Black Mage is Elemental single target damage. They need abilities that focus on summoning and an utlimate ability that blows Deathflare out of the water.

-Remove DoTs and replace with the non elemental spell line of Ruin, Flare and Nova
-Remove the Egis and replace with Evoker system where we Invoke the Primals gaining the abilities of the Primal we chose to invoke. Using a Primal ability will cause us to gain a Primal Aetherial stack and once we get 3 stacks we can use Enkindle which conjures up the Primal to do its ultimate attack and leave.
-Give us the Caller spell line which allows us to Call Forth Hydaelyn/The Twelve which will be our Ultimate Ability.

My theorycraft starts with the Ultimate Ability at level 70 and backs into lower level abilities.

[seraseth]

Just like you though OP I love the SMN job but it doesn't feel like what I'm use to from other FF games where I summon ifrit, titan, etc. for big dmg and then they disappear again. I do enjoy SMN right now but it's just not what I personally envision how SMN should be.

I just posted the same thing in a different thread. I do enjoy SMN as it is, it was my first to 50, but it doesn't feel like a real 'summoner' to me.

[Saggo]

This would shift the focus entirely onto summoning but also prevent the Egi from dying and making the SMN useless, as it is no longer classed as a pet.

I disagree. Visually or aesthetically maybeso , but mechanically there'd be no focus on summoning or summons whatsoever. Plus, taking away mechanical control to improve visual focus would be a disservice to those who want those mechanics.

The traditional Summoner doesn't have to inherently be a pet class but being a pet job gives a Summoner the most mechanical agency over the act of summoning.

[ckc22]

I'm so tired of seeing the same thing over and over about summoner.

Summoner is that it's in a great place right now and the XIV iteration is about 1000x better and more interesting than what summoner was for YEARS in XI (a manatank white mage).

The main complaints I hear about summoner are visuals and "feel." For people who complain about the visuals, go back and watch the astral flows of XI summons... they're really unimpressive - there's some nostalgia bias going on here. The egis do look a little lame, but I think it has more to do with their design instead of the fact that they're "mini" summons (ie: the ifrit egi graphically looks much better than garuda or titan, just in terms of detail) and there are obvious reasons why having huge pets running around the field would be bad for visibility/etc.

As for feel - what a lot of people want for summoner is some iteration of the (generally overpowered) aoe nuker it is in other games in the series which is untenable in an MMO. This is a bigger issue because "feel" is the same reason why some people are against things like Drk being a tank class or the addition of blue/red mage because they may not function exactly like they do in the rest of the series. Personally, I'd much rather them use classic jobs and take a spin on them so that they fit into XIV/the balance of the game rather than add a bunch of jobs with no history/connection to FF.

[myahele]

At the very least they can make it so that Dreadwyrm trance remains as an aura as long as your in that trance

[SoloWingMetatron]

I disagree. Visually or aesthetically maybeso , but mechanically there'd be no focus on summoning or summons whatsoever. Plus, taking away mechanical control to improve visual focus would be a disservice to those who want those mechanics.

The traditional Summoner doesn't have to inherently be a pet class but being a pet job gives a Summoner the most mechanical agency over the act of summoning.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. My idea is focused purely on the Egi by giving the SMN moves akin to Yuna's from Dissidia. Every ability would essentially be a summoning just like Dissidia Yuna. You are right though that it does take away from people who would rather be able to command a separate pet. However I am not saying this idea is the only way SMN should be. It's a fun idea, nothing more.

I did however try to cater for pet lovers, by making it that once the SMN uses one of these abilities the Egi stays summoned. So you would always have an Egi floating with you. It just wouldn't be technically classed as a pet is all.

I'm so tired of seeing the same thing over and over about summoner.

Summoner is that it's in a great place right now and the XIV iteration is about 1000x better and more interesting than what summoner was for YEARS in XI (a manatank white mage).

The main complaints I hear about summoner are visuals and "feel." For people who complain about the visuals, go back and watch the astral flows of XI summons... they're really unimpressive - there's some nostalgia bias going on here. The egis do look a little lame, but I think it has more to do with their design instead of the fact that they're "mini" summons (ie: the ifrit egi graphically looks much better than garuda or titan, just in terms of detail) and there are obvious reasons why having huge pets running around the field would be bad for visibility/etc.

As for feel - what a lot of people want for summoner is some iteration of the (generally overpowered) aoe nuker it is in other games in the series which is untenable in an MMO. This is a bigger issue because "feel" is the same reason why some people are against things like Drk being a tank class or the addition of blue/red mage because they may not function exactly like they do in the rest of the series. Personally, I'd much rather them use classic jobs and take a spin on them so that they fit into XIV/the balance of the game rather than add a bunch of jobs with no history/connection to FF.

Oh agree with most of what you are saying here, and as I have said throughout this thread. I do actually enjoy SMN's current incarnation, it's not broken and it is my favourite job.

My Dissidia SMN idea was by no means an attempt to belittle SE's hard work or to whine for that matter. It's meant to be a bit of fun theorycrafting, in a comprehensive way that brings into account game mechanics, not just lore. Which is what my idea facilitates, a viable play style that would work in XIV but also focused purely on the Egi. However that does not mean I expect it to actually happen, or for SE to totally overhaul the job. I nor anybody else has asked for this in this thread.

My idea however does not make it an overpowered AoE nuker. It's just shifting it's focus to the Egi by giving SMN a new set of abilities akin to that of Yuna from Dissidia, where all of her moves are essentially a Summon. That play style would lend itself really well to XIV, being a fast paced game, as would a lot of play styles from Dissidia for that matter.

In regards to the XI SMN comparison I agree completely, I even made another comprehensive post about this in the DPS forums a while back and posted youtube vids of the Astral Flow abilities and how they are no more flashy than Egi's Enkindle.

At the very least they can make it so that Dreadwyrm trance remains as an aura as long as your in that trance

Yeah I agree, it would be nice to at least have some form of permanent visual cue for when DT is up. Even if it's just a blue fiery aura.

[Averax]

while we are on the topic of Yuna, YUNA GLAMOUR PLLZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Despite how cool Yuna is, Lady Caetuna from FF: Type 0 is clearly the best dressed summoner. I want her glamour

[Saggo]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. My idea is focused purely on the Egi by giving the SMN moves akin to Yuna's from Dissidia. Every ability would essentially be a summoning just like Dissidia Yuna. You are right though that it does take away from people who would rather be able to command a separate pet. However I am not saying this idea is the only way SMN should be. It's a fun idea, nothing more.

You may give a more visually appealing Egi, but it's just giving the pet mechanics to the summoner. Having the Egi out visually amounts to not much more than an aura while the player nukes. Agency is through the player alone at that point, not the summon. That, to me, is a step backwards for summoners.

I'm not saying you can't have fun with the idea. I'm saying that the idea doesn't focus entirely, or even just more, on the Egi. I'm saying it takes focus away from the Egi.