What does Heavensward actually bring to the table as an expansion?

[DreameR7g]

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Actually, FFXI catered to the hardcore crowd and it quickly became an "old boys club". Unless you had friends on the inside, you had a devil of a time getting yourself up there. It's why new players joined at a crawl around 2008/2009. It was SE's first MMO and it was FAR from new player/casual friendly.

That is actually, exactly, what SE learned about XI. They needed to understand that new blood is vital to keeping an MMO running. They also needed to understand to establish a balance based on how many casual/midcore players there are compared to hardcore. It isn't a coincidence that only a certain small percentage of people have even stepped FOOT in Alexander Savage.


What you call faceroll can easily be casual/midcore content. Just faceroll to a certain group of people (like you and me) because we easily can problem solve, work with others, etc. It doesn't apply to everybody.

It IS unrealistic to try to cater to everybody. When you try to cater to everyone, you really cater to no-one because nobody will end up happy. According to the business numbers, they have to cater to the casual/midcore more than the hardcore. That's the way things are.

[Evtrai]

Actually, FFXI catered to the hardcore crowd and it quickly became an "old boys club". Unless you had friends on the inside, you had a devil of a time getting yourself up there. It's why new players joined at a crawl around 2008/2009. It was SE's first MMO and it was FAR from new player/casual friendly.

That is actually, exactly, what SE learned about XI. They needed to understand that new blood is vital to keeping an MMO running. They also needed to understand to establish a balance based on how many casual/midcore players there are compared to hardcore. It isn't a coincidence that only a certain small percentage of people have even stepped FOOT in Alexander Savage.


What you call faceroll can easily be casual/midcore content. Just faceroll to a certain group of people (like you and me) because we easily can problem solve, work with others, etc. It doesn't apply to everybody.

It IS unrealistic to try to cater to everybody. When you try to cater to everyone, you really cater to no-one because nobody will end up happy. According to the business numbers, they have to cater to the casual/midcore more than the hardcore. That's the way things are.

The dificulty due archaic comunication system making hard to search for groups and instead resorting to doing odd searches to party and level up was one thing, but it did not constitute it as being "hardcore" FFXI was a game that pushed you to socialize and establish bonds with other players, I pretty much knew everyone on my server, from either grouping with them when we were newbies and the progress onwards. Nowdays people seem to want to play an MMO and be Anti-social, they want to do everything alone, not talk to anyone, etc

[DreameR7g]

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That was part of it. The difficulty of the game also made it non-player friendly. Losing exp when you die, leveling up seperate weapon skills in order to be proficient with a weapon, no map until you actually got the key item for it, etc. It required tons more work and in order to be a good player, you had to do TONS more grinding than in XIV. Definitely not new player friendly, especially later on when the content kept piling on and leaving new blood in the dust. It became a game where it was more attractive to the hardcore than new players.

You're right that people are more rebellious nowadays, untrusting towards their fellow player and why systems like the duty finder are required. Because of their change in policy, they are actually making more of a profit now than XI ever did.

Look at 1.0. That was done with the spirit of XI in mind and look how difficult it was for casual/midcore players. So much so that 1.0 flopped HARD.

[Fendred]

Look at 1.0. That was done with the spirit of XI in mind and look how difficult it was for casual/midcore players. So much so that 1.0 flopped HARD.

FFXIV 1.0 wasn't a finished game. It was an alpha product released as a finished product. Trying to compare the FFXI to the broken state of FFXIV 1.0 is comparing a mustang to a half built car.

Also, FFXI actually managed to get people to play with one another and develop relationships as they leveled. That is something FFXIV:ARR simply does not do as well. People aren't any more distrusting of others now than they were when FFXI came out. It was just that FFXI was built with Everquest as a role model. Everquest still has a healthy player base despite being incredibly old. Such is the staying power of the community it created.

[DreameR7g]

FFXIV 1.0 wasn't a finished game. It was an alpha product released as a finished product. Trying to compare the FFXI to the broken state of FFXIV 1.0 is comparing a mustang to a half built car.

Yes but only problem: The director for the years of XI before Abyssea was the same director of 1.0. It was pretty much FFXI 2.0 and designed that way.

Edit: Oh yes, it did. And XI can still sustain itself from the players still playing it. Only problem: That number WILL dwindle with no new blood infused in it and thus, it'll die.

Everquest and FFXI were designed with different eras in mind. Nowadays with how hardware has upgraded massively, it takes nothing at all to sustain these older games but to depend on them as a prime source of profit? Sadly, you just can't. Yeah, they were designed to get people to play with one another, develop relationships a lot more but the era of MMOs and communities has changed. It won't be like that again.

[Daralii]

Definitely not new player friendly, especially later on when the content kept piling on and leaving new blood in the dust. It became a game where it was more attractive to the hardcore than new players.

You're right that people are more rebellious nowadays, untrusting towards their fellow player and why systems like the duty finder are required. Because of their change in policy, they are actually making more of a profit now than XI ever did.

Look at 1.0. That was done with the spirit of XI in mind and look how difficult it was for casual/midcore players. So much so that 1.0 flopped HARD.

1.0 had plenty of issues aside from that, but you're right. The structure was designed to really just be appealing to the people that played XI and other older MMOs, but I imagine most of the people that wanted a game like XI were still just playing XI.

[DreameR7g]

1.0 had plenty of issues aside from that, but you're right. The structure was designed to really just be appealing to the people that played XI and other older MMOs, but I imagine most of the people that wanted a game like XI were still just playing XI.

Haha! Pretty much and would you rather play XI 2.0 and start all over again with new systems, new world, everything or stick with the game you know, you love and your built up character with all the achievements attached?

[Tyla_Esmeraude]

Haha! Pretty much and would you rather play XI 2.0 and start all over again with new systems, new world, everything or stick with the game you know, you love and your built up character with all the achievements attached?

Because it's so much better to play a FFXIV that is just about the same as 90% of the MMOs out there in the market...
FFXIV could've taken things that FFXI did right, it didn't have to be a same exact clone. Right now, the only things that this game has taken from FFXI are the monsters. Everything else, taken from other "modern" games and while it's not bad to be inspired by other ideas, it's also bad if you forget your roots completely. I mean, all those people complaining about SE not making the same FFs anymore (mainly pointing out the linearity of FFXIII, no open world to name an example) and that they wanted more games like the games they fell in love with years ago must say something.

[DreameR7g]

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Actually, FFXIII did have an open world but only once you reached Gran Pulse. XIII also broke sale records that were once held by VIII. SE didn't forget their roots with XIII. In my view, they started to forget their roots when they started to release sequels to XIII itself.

Of course SE was inspired by other modern games. Their ultimate goal is to make a profit and to get the max amount of players they can. XI didn't do that enough for them so they went into a different direction. Same with XIV 1.0. It didn't do that enough for them so they went into different, and more successful, direction.

[Gilraen]

Look at 1.0. That was done with the spirit of XI in mind and look how difficult it was for casual/midcore players. So much so that 1.0 flopped HARD.

It flopped hard because the game was full of systems designed to limit your ability to enjoy the game, like Fatigue and Surplus, and the director refused to pay attention to criticism. He's been quoted as stating that people 'just need time to come and appreciate his vision'. He was very inflexible and noone batted an eye when Square took him off the project and assigned Yoshida in his stead. The only thing about 1.0 that was even remotely like XI were the races, and even then we wanted something, anything, else. Hence male miqo'te, female roegadyn and female highlanders. 2.0 has taken off because Yoshida listened to criticism and asked us what we'd like instead of trying to force-feed us his idea of what the game should be.