What does Heavensward actually bring to the table as an expansion?

[Vickii]

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I'm not telling people who like the game and are rational to quit. I wouldn't dream of telling you what to do.

I'm suggesting to a person who only posts negatively, looks at past games out of nostalgia and who doesn't seem to have fun besides from resentfully running content to grind tokens that perhaps a break might help to enjoy the game more in future, or provide time to do something more enjoyable.

say you go to a movie, you enjoy it. So you go again next week and keep going and going, watching the same movie every week for 2 years. Then you hate the movie, you can't stand anything about it. Would you keep going and paying? Of course not.

At this point, there's better ways someone could be spending their time because the game is frustrating more than enjoyable. If you seemingly hated something that is designed to be leisure time, and was causing you more upset than fun, then why stay? Its addiction.

[aurace1095]

I'm not telling people who like the game and are rational to quit. I wouldn't dream of telling you what to do.

I'm suggesting to a person who only posts negatively, looks at past games out of nostalgia and who doesn't seem to have fun besides from resentfully running content to grind tokens that perhaps a break might help to enjoy the game more in future, or provide time to do something more enjoyable.

say you go to a movie, you enjoy it. So you go again next week and keep going and going, watching the same movie every week for 2 years. Then you hate the movie, you can't stand anything about it. Would you keep going and paying? Of course not.

At this point, there's better ways someone could be spending their time because the game is frustrating more than enjoyable. If you seemingly hated something that is designed to be leisure time, and was causing you more upset than fun, then why stay? Its addiction.

The whole point is the game SHOULDN'T be the same movie every week for 2 years. It should be more like a TV show, or even a movie franchise. We keep coming back because we know we enjoy the basic structure, and are excited to see what interesting and fun new ways they expand on it each new episode / movie / game update. The problem is, they are just releasing the same movie with every update, with a wardrobe change and maybe one or two new lines of dialogue every few months.

[DreameR7g]

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I wouldn't say its the same movie every week for 2 years but I would liken it to the same type of movie genre every week, such as watching an action flick every week for 2 years.

And yes, we keep coming back because we're excited to see what new ways they will expand upon the game but it seems some of the community don't understand how long it actually takes to implement interesting and fun ways. It takes months to code, to bug test, not to mention the idea making past the developers to where the suits would approve of it.

[aurace1095]

I wouldn't say its the same movie every week for 2 years but I would liken it to the same type of movie genre every week, such as watching an action flick every week for 2 years.

And yes, we keep coming back because we're excited to see what new ways they will expand upon the game but it seems some of the community don't understand how long it actually takes to implement interesting and fun ways. It takes months to code, to bug test, not to mention the idea making past the developers to where the suits would approve of it.

Right, it does take time, but we just got a whole expansion, which is generally where the new and exciting game features come in, and we got... flying mounts? All of the current endgame content is, more or less, a wardrobe change from the endgame content in 2.x.


Edit: Also, I wouldn't quite call it the same movie every week either, but Vickii did and I was replying to her, going off of her comparison.

[DreameR7g]

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I.. would disagree with that assessment.

In Heavensward, we got:

Flying (and new mounts )
Expanded MSQ (which is a lot of content on its own)
Higher level cap (50 - 60), which SE likened it'd take the same amount of effort as 1 - 50.
Expanded jobs
3 new jobs
And a plethora of other things.

Yes, the endgame is sparse. However, do people not understand how sparse 2.0 was as well? All we had for endgame was.. The Binding Coil of Bahamut at the time. Turns 1 through 5. Unfortunately, the story was also locked behind raiding. There's more middle end content from Heavensward than there was from 2.0. Wait for the content patches. It'll be filled out more.

[Vickii]

The whole point is the game SHOULDN'T be the same movie every week for 2 years.

Maybe it shouldn't. But it is what it is. There's nothing wrong with reasonable dialogue to express disappointment or to suggest changes. But at some point you just have to say 'well, this is what it is and this is what i'm paying for'. Because if you're still here in another year griping about the same movie every week, well that's a whole year you could have done something you enjoyed more.

Really not saying you shouldn't feed back or criticise, that's important. But some people in this thread kinda seem at the point where they aren't going to be pleased by anything they get now, and they know they aren't going to be pleased, and it's like they just stay around to complain and bring their negativity upon everyone else rather than move on.

[aurace1095]

I.. would disagree with that assessment.

In Heavensward, we got:

Flying (and new mounts )
Expanded MSQ (which is a lot of content on its own)
Higher level cap (50 - 60), which SE likened it'd take the same amount of effort as 1 - 50.
Expanded jobs
3 new jobs
And a plethora of other things.

Yes, the endgame is sparse. However, do people not understand how sparse 2.0 was as well? All we had for endgame was.. The Binding Coil of Bahamut at the time. Turns 1 through 5. Unfortunately, the story was also locked behind raiding. There's more middle end content from Heavensward than there was from 2.0. Wait for the content patches. It'll be filled out more.

I've only been talking in terms of endgame content, because after the initial "rush" (whether or not it's actually rushed, it isn't the staying content in the game), the content that we have available to do for actual character progression is extremely limited, and very structurally similar to the endgame from 2.0.

I agree that 2.0 launched with fairly sparse endgame content as well, but the whole point of continuing on in the games life, launching an expansion, etc. is to improve on the game, and part of that should be fixing past mistakes (such as sparse endgame content). If this was an issue in 2.0, why did they launch 3.0 with the exact same issue?

The only potentially new endgame mechanic we've heard about is the airship explorations. I'm very hopeful for the content, but at the same time apprehensive, since so far the game hasn't had a great track record of introducing new and varied endgame content.

We're talking about the current state of the game - there should be content in *now* that makes us want to log in and play. Saying "wait for the content patches" doesn't fix anything - we're upset about the state of Heavensward endgame *at launch*.

[DreameR7g]

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Only problem with that line of thinking: It caters to only a select group of players.

They put out sparse endgame content because in terms of priority, they are actually lower on the list than general all around content. (Leveling, dungeons, new jobs, etc.) Priority is established by how many players it will generally affect. Since endgame only affects a certain low percentage (I hazard a guess around 5% but don't actually have the true percentage. My point is: It's low.), it won't get as much content as the overall game.

I would say its a problem for being in the minority group but that's life for you. XD

[aurace1095]

Maybe it shouldn't. But it is what it is. There's nothing wrong with reasonable dialogue to express disappointment or to suggest changes. But at some point you just have to say 'well, this is what it is and this is what i'm paying for'. Because if you're still here in another year griping about the same movie every week, well that's a whole year you could have done something you enjoyed more.

Really not saying you shouldn't feed back or criticise, that's important. But some people in this thread kinda seem at the point where they aren't going to be pleased by anything they get now, and they know they aren't going to be pleased, and it's like they just stay around to complain and bring their negativity upon everyone else rather than move on.

Like I posted earlier, Yoshi-P has explicitly talked about listening to player feedback, complaints, and criticism. I do go and do other things - as it is now, I'm only logging in to FFXIV once a day to do my roulette, then a few evenings a week to grind out the same raid. I wish FFXIV had more to offer though, and that's why I'm here posting, in hopes that the devs will see this and make the changes that, if this thread is any indication, a good number of people also feel is needed in order for the game to have real staying power.

You're right, that is the current state of the game. As the players, we have the right to not be happy about that state, and to voice that in a medium that the devs will see: the official forums. We're all fans of MMOs, Final Fantasy, maybe just games in general, and I know I want to love FFXIV and see it succeed. People may seem like they won't be pleased by anything, but that's because it's been a long time and they haven't seen anything worth being pleased about yet (in their eyes).

Maybe you're right, and it it is futile, but I'm sure they want to love the game and enjoy it just as much as everyone else, and the way they have to get their message across to the devs is through this forum. I really believe that most people, if it got to the point that they didn't care anymore and knew that they don't enjoy the game, and never will, would just quit and move on. But they still have hope that it can become the game they want, and that's why they're here talking (and complaining) about it.

[aurace1095]

Only problem with that line of thinking: It caters to only a select group of players.

They put out sparse endgame content because in terms of priority, they are actually lower on the list than general all around content. (Leveling, dungeons, new jobs, etc.) Priority is established by how many players it will generally affect. Since endgame only affects a certain low percentage (I hazard a guess around 5% but don't actually have the true percentage. My point is: It's low.), it won't get as much content as the overall game.

I would say its a problem for being in the minority group but that's life for you. XD

It caters to the group of players that really stay with the game over the long term. There's TONS of content there for more casual players, and from what I've seen in the MMO genre, the more casual players are the ones who move on fastest when the "big new thing" comes out. Why can't there be a good amount of content in the game for every type of player? I'd say 80% of the current game is geared towards casuals, with the remaining measly 20% for "hardcore" players. The content that *is* in there for more hardcore players is mostly a rehash of the content that was available in 2.x. All we're asking for is some variety.