What does Heavensward actually bring to the table as an expansion?

[Souljacker]

Please show me some examples of "standards of a modern mmo". Which mmo out there right now doesnt feature time gating and repetitive grind? F2P game where you pay to skip grind and time gate? No thanks.

Way to quote my post and then proceed to make a comment that has absolutely nothing to do with the content of the post. Nowhere did I suggest getting rid of time gating or grinding. In fact, all I mentioned was that it sucks we can't land on all surfaces that intuitively we would expect to and that we can't change zones outside of a 5 yalm doorway like in every other modern mmo on the planet.

Since you asked for examples, here's a few more:

Instanced player housing (No, I'll never shut up about this)
An intuitive and quick inventory system (spreading across x retainers gets tedious)
Useful macros (this irrational fear of botting coupled with Psx limitations has led to a barebones design that doesn't even allow us crtl\shift\alt modifiers or text names on the macros)
Support for addons (please!)
The ability to chat with people while inside dungeons and raids. Other programmers figured it out. Why isn't it even on SE's radar?

And finally, since you mentioned grindy content specifically - WoW's last xpac released with 8 dungeons at all difficulty levels. We have 2 in expert roulette and let me tell you, I have to force myself to run them to help friends because I'm so tired of the same two dungeons over and over again. I don't mind grinding content, but 2 dungeons for an xpac is hardly worthy of even being called content. Where's the expert versions of all the leveling dungeons we got that outside of leveling we haven't ever seen again? HUGE oversight. 2 Primals? Whoopee. And Alex, which most of us cram into an hour of queuing on reset day. Let me just work on Alex Savage, which is the same fight with no additional story and just tighter DPS checks and mechanics. Great for bragging rights, not so great as actual engaging content that I dream about while at work and just can't wait to come home and play. >.>

This game has flaws. I like a lot of it and play it because I'm a FF geek, but that doesn't mean I am just going to remain blind to the fact that SE really depended heavily on peoples' interest in just leveling the new jobs and forgot that there's a sizable portion ALREADY playing the iconic jobs we love (BLM WAR WHM for me). There's not a lot of content and many of the systems here have big, big issues (housing!!!). It's not up to the standards of a modern mmo.

[Evtrai]

I'm sure this thread is parroting my feelings: "how long can SE keep the 3.0 meta of faceroll content > unforgiving content?"

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...a_of_faceroll/

[SDaemon]

WoW's last xpac released with 8 dungeons at all difficulty levels. We have 2 in expert roulette and let me tell you, I have to force myself to run them to help friends because I'm so tired of the same two dungeons over and over again. I don't mind grinding content, but 2 dungeons for an xpac is hardly worthy of even being called content.

Yeah WoD released with 8 dungeons and only those 8 for the entire life of the expansion. In MoP we were stuck with the same 9 dungeons at release (3 of which were Heroic versions of Vanilla content) for the life of the expansion.

On the other hand those 2 dungeons we have now are just the first in a long succession of dungeons to be added throughout the life of 3.0. It sucks for the moment, and Neverreap can burn in a fiery pit for eternity, but I'd much rather have dungeons added gradually than be stuck with the same 8-9 dungeons for over a year...

Is there a better alternative? Most likely, but strictly comparing to WoW I'd much much rather have what we have here in XIV.

[Souljacker]

Yeah WoD released with 8 dungeons and only those 8 for the entire life of the expansion. In MoP we were stuck with the same 9 dungeons at release (3 of which were Heroic versions of Vanilla content) for the life of the expansion.

On the other hand those 2 dungeons we have now are just the first in a long succession of dungeons to be added throughout the life of 3.0. It sucks for the moment, and Neverreap can burn in a fiery pit for eternity, but I'd much rather have dungeons added gradually than be stuck with the same 8-9 dungeons for over a year...

Is there a better alternative? Most likely, but strictly comparing to WoW I'd much much rather have what we have here in XIV.

Well, that's because WoW focuses on raid content releases after the initial dungeons because those dungeons are obsolete at that point. I'm not saying WoW is > FFXIV, just that their last xpac launched with more content and somehow managed to give players their own personal instanced CITY and this game can't even give us a mog house. When you compare specific things, WoW is better, but overall I agree FFXIV is better. It's a pretty clear case of Simpson's Paradox.

That doesn't mean XIV gets a free pass on two dungeons at launch (especially when the framework was already there, they just needed to tune for expert mode on the leveling ones).

Oh and, I don't have to edit a post because it's "too long" on Blizzard's forums. Sheesh this gets annoying.

[SDaemon]

Well, that's because WoW focuses on raid content releases after the initial dungeons because those dungeons are obsolete at that point.

That is only true from MoP onward. Prior to that they released more dungeons in latter patches (BC, WotLK and Cata)

just that their last xpac launched with more content and somehow managed to give players their own personal instanced CITY and this game can't even give us a mog house.

The facebook mini-game that is Garrisons has been one of the most scrutinized and negatively criticized features of WoD as well as the expansion's overall horrible lack of content. Did it launch with more content? Not really. It launched with more dungeons.

[Souljacker]

The facebook mini-game that is Garrisons has been one of the most scrutinized and negatively criticized features of WoD as well as the expansion's overall horrible lack of content. Did it launch with more content? Not really. It launched with more dungeons.

I'm not arguing that Garrisons were great or that compared to previous xpacs WoD was great. I'm personally in the WoTLK camp.

I was taking specifics and comparing them to this game. I postulated that Blizzard managed to make instancing work for all their players in the form of an entire city and compared that specifically to housing here, where SE says it's "too hard" to instance (even though XI did it too). I argued that they put 8 dungeons in right off the bat instead of only 2 at endgame and the rest you never see again after leveling. Don't take the comments out of context - that's disingenuous to the discussion.

[SDaemon]

I argued that they put 8 dungeons in right off the bat instead of only 2 at endgame and the rest you never see again after leveling. Don't take the comments out of context - that's disingenuous to the discussion.

Where and when did you argue this?

Your initial post just made mentioned that WoD launched with 8 dungeons and HW having 2, calling it "hardly worth of even being called content". Nothing about "instead of 2 at endgame and the rest never seen again after leveling".

WoW's last xpac released with 8 dungeons at all difficulty levels. We have 2 in expert roulette and let me tell you, I have to force myself to run them to help friends because I'm so tired of the same two dungeons over and over again. I don't mind grinding content, but 2 dungeons for an xpac is hardly worthy of even being called content. Where's the expert versions of all the leveling dungeons we got that outside of leveling we haven't ever seen again?

You make mention of "where are the expert versions of leveling dungeons?" Well see those are added later with the dungeon patches. As always. (Tam Tara, Brayflox etc etc etc)

We will have more dungeons added through patches which increases the dungeon pool as time goes on. Furthermore the older dungeons are added to roulettes and are seen again, unlike in WoW where once you out-level a dungeon you can never enter it again outside of manually going to the entrance and walking it.

None of that original quote though mentions 2 dungeons and everything else is forgotten in comparison to the 8 dungeons WoD launched with.

[Souljacker]

Where and when did you argue this?
Your initial posted just made mentioned that WoD launched with 8 dungeons. That is it.

The very first post you selectively quoted back on page 11.

And finally, since you mentioned grindy content specifically - WoW's last xpac released with 8 dungeons at all difficulty levels. We have 2 in expert roulette and let me tell you, I have to force myself to run them to help friends because I'm so tired of the same two dungeons over and over again. I don't mind grinding content, but 2 dungeons for an xpac is hardly worthy of even being called content. Where's the expert versions of all the leveling dungeons we got that outside of leveling we haven't ever seen again?

I don't mind having back and forth discussions because that's interesting, but let's stay within the bounds of the context.

[DawnSolaria]

Way to quote my post and then proceed to make a comment that has absolutely nothing to do with the content of the post. Nowhere did I suggest getting rid of time gating or grinding. In fact, all I mentioned was that it sucks we can't land on all surfaces that intuitively we would expect to and that we can't change zones outside of a 5 yalm doorway like in every other modern mmo on the planet.

Since you asked for examples, here's a few more:

Instanced player housing (No, I'll never shut up about this)
An intuitive and quick inventory system (spreading across x retainers gets tedious)
Useful macros (this irrational fear of botting coupled with Psx limitations has led to a barebones design that doesn't even allow us crtl\shift\alt modifiers or text names on the macros)
Support for addons (please!)
The ability to chat with people while inside dungeons and raids. Other programmers figured it out. Why isn't it even on SE's radar?

And finally, since you mentioned grindy content specifically - WoW's last xpac released with 8 dungeons at all difficulty levels. We have 2 in expert roulette and let me tell you, I have to force myself to run them to help friends because I'm so tired of the same two dungeons over and over again. I don't mind grinding content, but 2 dungeons for an xpac is hardly worthy of even being called content. Where's the expert versions of all the leveling dungeons we got that outside of leveling we haven't ever seen again? HUGE oversight. 2 Primals? Whoopee. And Alex, which most of us cram into an hour of queuing on reset day. Let me just work on Alex Savage, which is the same fight with no additional story and just tighter DPS checks and mechanics. Great for bragging rights, not so great as actual engaging content that I dream about while at work and just can't wait to come home and play. >.>

This game has flaws. I like a lot of it and play it because I'm a FF geek, but that doesn't mean I am just going to remain blind to the fact that SE really depended heavily on peoples' interest in just leveling the new jobs and forgot that there's a sizable portion ALREADY playing the iconic jobs we love (BLM WAR WHM for me). There's not a lot of content and many of the systems here have big, big issues (housing!!!). It's not up to the standards of a modern mmo.

1. Instanced housing should not be the standard, that is only your opinion. As someone who owns the house close to fc and friend I would rather keep it this way.
2. I partially agree on inventory, but they did give us a lot of space in the beginning.
3. Macros, the ones i use serve their purpose(mostly crafting). But im sure some people require more to work with.
4. While i do support certain addons, I can see why they hesitate to do it, games with addon support have mostly turned into real time spreadsheet.
5. I dont recall this being the "standard". Most mmo ive played still require a third party voip.

More dungeons are still being released. At the end of 2.55, there were more hardmode then I could handle. SE could either release all HM at the start, and have people complain all the way til end of xpac, or gradually release them and have people complain every once in a while. Either way people are going to complain. Additionally, WoW "heroic" mode is just same dungeon with higher stats, while HM in FFXIV is whole different dungeon taking place in the same setting, this ofc takes more time to develop.
The percentage of people who actually completed Savage is very small, normal gives players the chance to step into Alexander.(old lfr argument) WoW's different raid difficulty is no different, and I keep comparing to WoW because its the most comparable and most successful out there.

Game has flaws, this I do not disagree. But a lot of people are just complaining for the sake of complaining. I mean do you honestly think HW has brought absolutely NOTHING into the game?