Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

[Rhomagus]

To properly reply to subjects I dissect them within the actual quote itself. My replies are written in red off the top of my head and included into the quote. My black text, (written below the quote) is my opinion taking the entire quote into account. This allows both a careful dissection of supporting evidence and a "forest for the trees" perspective as well.

Again, the red text is typed almost in real time, I'll only edit those if there is a gigantic error or lapse in logic. If I'm called out on it I'll respond. If I'm proven wrong, I'll humbly submit.

So here we go.

So, Rhomagus, after all this All-out war you declared on this thread. Just a simple question, as Jynx has pointed out previously, you really don't see an issue with *Clap your hands* vanish from one city, *Clap your hands* appear in another city?No.
You really don't think that this is bad game design and it will harm the game and it's longevity when everything is a click away?As per your proposal so far only cities are a "click" away. As the game is right now, only cities are a click away. This introduces no new concepts so far. This is not bad game design. Why even bother have different cities, may as well have one big city?Different cultural motifs as already pointed out by another poster in this thread. Different quests. Different lore. There are many reasons to have different cities. You could also have very larege cities with different districts ala a real life New York city. It's not completely impossible. Grand Theft auto thrives with this type of architectural concept and provides plenty of content even though for the most part, your in one city. So even the alternative really isn't that bad. It's only a difference of scale, not content, nor immersion. (Hang on.. i know your tempted to dissect every lil comment)I explained my commenting procedure above. The whole post will be given it's proper attention. City is not just defined by it's content but by it's location as wellSo you say, and I'd agree with you, specifically with how XIV has implemented it's cities. You have different geographical locations that are suggest different flor and fauna, different cultural practices as the different people react to their different environment. This is a successful use of physical (in the digital sense) distance in order to separate the nations. But no matter what happens, they they are, in their environment. The people and culture represent that enviroment and the people move between it. The city's themselves do not move, my character moves to the city. Regardless of whether or not I port to it doesn't take away from it's immersive elements. The city still exists, with it's culture in tact, regardless of where I go. It keeps it's identity regardless of whether or not I port to it or not., i'm sure you would agree to this.I do. (Hold your temptation a bit longer..) I mean..you are forced to spend time to run from one guild to another in the cityAs of right now yes., Does it really make sense to you that you're forced to spend some time to run from one end of the city to the otherThe games current mechanics require me to do so and I have no qualms with this. Please remember my position before you assume my motivations. I do not wish for options to be taken away. I do not wish for the option to walk to be taken away. If the option to do something is implemented and taken away I'm usually against that. That's a nerf in my book. I will not discuss here where I think that is appropriate but in terms of needless timesinks the answer is "never appropriate". but it's not acceptable to spend a little bit of time to travel from one city to anotherYou don't have to with the current anima system. You're also talking about vastly different amounts of time. Walking from the Quicksands to the Mineral Concern is very different from walking from Ul'dah to Gridania, especially when taking into account those instances of time over years of a human lifespan.? (Now you can reply..coz it's all in context now)I'll reply how I choose to reply thank you very much. Though I'm assuming you want em to take this entire paragraph into context before forming an opinion. I'll give you a summary as well in that case.

My overall answer: No.
More precisely: Anima is already present in the game as an instant transportation mechanism. It is also present in the lore. It is not a newly introduced concept and has been around since even before the game was introduced. Instant teleportation, as a mechanism of the game, is not frowned upon even from an immersion standpoint. On the contrary it's applauded. It allows me to get in touch with my friends significantly faster. There is nothing blocking our communication. From a physical real life standpoint, I want to communicate and express myself via gameplay mechanics with my friends. In this manner you could see my merely playing the game with my friends as a form of communication. I express myself with my friends by sharing group content with them. A barrier to that content is needing to maneuver my character to be within close proximity of my friend's character so that we can experience the game's content together and get on with communicating (playing) with each other.

To express teamwork and gameplay as a communication medium allows me to propose the following:

Are cell phone's less useful because I can call anyone from any point in the world?

Goal: Communicate with someone
Barrier: Physical distance
Solution: Radio waves traveling at the speed of light to transmit my expression to another human being.
Alternate solution: Go to physically visit them.

Both solutions meet the same goal. Both solutions have their merits in how they are applied. I am not advocating that people should never be allowed to walk to each other. I am advocating that people be allowed to use a cell phone to communicate with each other. Neither disrupt my goal, nor immersion, in real life. My choice to walk or use a cell phone sure as hell doesn't affect you.

To apply this concept form a design standpoint to XIV:

Is instant travel less useful because it allows me to group up with my friends faster?
Should I be limited, to not being able to utilize instant travel, if another person's goal is immersion when they ultimately choose how immersed they are in the content to begin with?

What happens when my friend who's been burning the midnight oil since he's returned from his time on the oil rig runs out of anima and he's in a different city. What if I too am out of anima. He's in Limsa, I'm in Gridania. We decide to both meet up in Ul'dah. What exactly is wrong with having an instant airship option? My actions do not effect your gameplay in this manner. This is the premise of my argument.

By your logic, i could argue that very idea that running around in the city everytime from one spot to the other is an unneeded time-sinkYes it is, by my logic, but beware, my overall conclusion is not asking for the abolition of walking or other transportation methods. This logic pertains to real life as well. Walking to work is an unnecessary timesink. Many people agree with me. Governments and DoT's across America agree with me. Naoki Yoshida agrees with me in his interview with Youkoumon and Rukirii. and that you are dictating my play when you don't give me the option to warp to any place in the cityOops. Do you see your problem here. I've never dictated anything to you. This is where you are objectively and verifiably unjust in your assumption. This is the key difference between you and I. I don't, nor do I, dictate anything. My philosophy is not in accordance with dictatorship. I do know that people love to use that word because it's synonymous with Hitler and Stalin and all the other bad boogey men of ages past, but you must realize that it's an actual word with an actual definition. It's not an epithet. Use it wisely.. Why not request to have npc's warp you into every guild in the city?I don't need that. If they want to implement that I'm fine. Isn't that the concept?Not mine. You accepted it for city to city travel when it takes around the same time (by a short airship ride) to travel within the cityWhen did I do this? Besides, I've already stated how these are very different things. I've also stated, and given arguments for, why an instant airship option should remain. Specifically for those weekend warriors who burn through their anima and don't mind spending a gil fee to travel from one place to another. Be careful not to misconstrue my position.. So why not have insta everything everywhere?Why not. Just don't get rid of the non instant transport options and we're fine. YAY! You may have not requested it but we could very well have other people requesting thisWouldn't doubt. Shh, don't say it too loudly, they might hear us., and we can say it's their rightIt is. It's learning to deal with different opinions that are a part of living in a society and a global culture with other people., the point of the matter is there should be a line drawn somewhereI think I've drawn it. When my actions start effecting you and others, then it's a problem. Do you see how your position is more out of "line". or you're pretty much screwing up the gameI'd agree. You are screwing up the game. By advocating the limitations for options in lieu of accommodating others when it does not effect you is selfish. You are quite literally screwing up the game for people who, in a sense, aren't you or agree with you. When it wouldn't be any different when considering the alternative. That's what we call in the business a "dick move"., bluntly put. And when it comes down to this, call it dictatorship if you willIf you're forcing people ya, I will., ill happily dictate it with my opinion if i feel its harming the success of the game, not just for me but for the massesYes! Our hero has arrived. Oh thank you mein fuhrer! I thought you'd never come. [don't worry hero, it's just a game] Sarcasm aside, this is where I wholeheartedly disagree with you, and you're more than welcome to your opinion. You are completely entitled to it. The concept that immersion needs to be forced on someone is a laughable proposal. Immerison is defined by the person themselves. Final Fantasy XIV already has plenty enough content to provide the catalyst for immersion. What should be advocated from here on out is the inclusion of more content to go along with that "hook". Replacing tedium, especially for immersion via transportation's sake, is not a viable replacement for content and if it's in your "Eorzea Redesign" I do not support it..

Yes, i agree to the point that the game should not have mindless time-sinks, and a current example of that i would definitely agree to is current state of the game where:

1) No chocobos to speed up movement around this massive world where you end up traversing the lands at a slow steady speed relentlessly.The implementation of chocobos directly addresses this.
2) No Airships, meaning you have to spend 20 mins running through Eorzea from one city to the other.The implementation of airships directly addresses this.

These were definite time-sinks which hurt the game..and we were all dealing with them since launchStill are. Disconnect bugs, transferring inventory, server to client lag, menu design layout, , now come 1.19, SE actually fixed these mindless time-sinksWill fix*. With the Airships, Cutting down time frame to travel one city to the other from like say, 20 mins to 5 minsOr even better, instantly., which is a huge shortcut in itselfNot as short as instant., but it's too much to handle?Who suggested this? It wasn't me that's for sure. To me, i will agree with Azury and whoever else stated this is precisely asking for things to be handed on a silver platterNope. Just want to retain the option of being able to "communicate" and "express myself" with my friends in an efficient manner., whether you agree or notNot with you., the factOh, gotta be careful with that word. It's strong. It implies very strong consequences, but if you use it then follow it up with a falsehood you risk turning yourself into an idiot. is you're not willing to accept the little effort and time it should take you to travel from one place to the otherWhy would you use the word "fact" when referring to someone elses feelings, emotions, or opinions. You're doomed form the outset. It's even worse that I'm totally willing to accept it. I'm totally going to be utilizing whatever airship content they decide to implement because I normally have 90 or more anima at any given time. I don't accept the idea to remove an instant travel alternative to anima for "immersion's" sake when you could just as easily choose not to do use it and immerse yourself in all that hot, sticky, gooey content.. Let's not forget ofcourse SE provided us with the Anima system, where need-be you can instantly teleport to any city at a costIs gil not a form of currency? Have you not read my airship content ideas thread? Does not every single option include a risk/reward scenario? C'mon man. I saw this giant wall of text and was expecting to be enlightened. Please try again... i think that's a fair compromise. Why should it all be so easy, dumbed down and instantI absolutely do not need to make the argument that time does not equal difficulty. Raptor grinding your way with 8 others and getting all your classes to 50 without ever utilizing a battle regimen is not hard. That's a whole different argument though, but the philosophy applies to in game transport as well. You're immersion is not hurt. Pressing W is not difficult. AFK sammiching on an airship is not difficult. It's not an effective substitute for content either, especially when there could be content to fill those gaps. Advocate for content, not time-sinks. Your solution is over yonder: Future Airship Content Ideas?

This isn't just about Immersion anymore, there is a concept called Game balance tooI've always included a risk/reward scenario in any of my suggestions. I haven't read the rest of your post but I already know your as wrong as an opinion can be.. In XI when you warped from one place to the other, you had to earn it through various accomplishments as has been previously statedNot unfamiliar with XI's system. This only removes one more filter from XI's system. An inefficient timesink. I for one, earned every single one of my teleport points. I'm not letting my personal accomplishment being squandered because someone else got there's on "easy mode"., no one started with warp cudgels in their pocketsIncluding myself., nor were these cudgels of infinite use and they had other limitationsNeither is anima, and I've always proposed a risk/reward scenario when suggesting content for airhsips..

You really have to get out of this give me everything on a silver platter mindsetNot in it, and I don't have to prove it to you either. I will say that I prefer walking places. I prefer making my own gear. I prefer going to out of the way places to grind on supposedly "inefficient" mobs with my friends for SP. I prefer creating my own goals. I prefer lots of things. I prefer the road less traveled. You're accusation that I'm in this "mindset" is absolutely false and presupposes my own personal character, which you know nothing about, over my suggestions. because i have limited timeAbsolutely not. Even if I had that mindset I wouldn't get out of it because I have limited time. I don't mold my life around the game. I utilize my free time to do so. If I have limited free time, I don't advocate spending it waiting for a useless cutscene that could be easily avoided., Games by their very nature involve a time-sinkAs long as that timesink involves legitimate content. Waiting on an airship is not legitimate content., especially so an MMO which is a massively multiplayer online-game where you're not the only one playing and a shortcut for you will harm the overall game balance for othersNot a transportation shortcut. Not for immersion's sake. Not for you, not for me. Oh and nice try btw to spin this around like I'm dictating how other people should use there time. It didn't work.. You can't see that?No. I can't see it because it's not there. I have $100 in my pocket. An invisible guy on the corner of Telegraph and Merididan gave it to me. You can't see him? How did I get my $100 then? A simple point mentioned before were people had to choose between settling in one city over the other to complete leves for exampleWhen was this mentioned? Where was it mentioned? When was this a game mechanic. and as a result had to often sacrifice leves in another city due to Anima limitationsThis relates to instant porting on an airhship how?, this sacrfice by choice aspect which is an integral part of any game has been harmed by this insta portI don't have to mention that I've always included a risk/reward scenario in all of my suggestions. This point has no basis as a counter to my argument. It's moot., now ppl will be warping instantly between cities without any hesitationYou don't know the costs of the system. I'd also wager that you're not a psychic. Why don't you wait for evidence to come in before making a claim. It'll help your argument more.. This is dumbing down the game and making it too easyHow is AFK sammiching not dumbing it down. How is allowing people to experience actual content without a bs game mechanic primarily powered by "immersion" condone this? How is maintaining the options of all forms of transportation, instant and otherwise, reducing a dynamic game environment when it's online that game that seeks longevity, a game that should live for another 10 years shouldI don't want to spend 4 of those waiting on an airship. That's what we call in the industry "a dick move". Especially when you start charging real money. not be over-simplified like thisYou still have the option to experience the game how you want. You'd be surprise how little this particular concept has to do on the bearing of the success of this game. I honestly can't say, but I can say that my philosophy reaches a larger crowd of people. I can also say that more people equals more revenue for Square Enix. I can also say that more revenue for Square Enix equals a more sustainable game., whether you think its a mind-sink or not, it serves other purposes which you either are unaware of or choose to ignore.I'll welcome you to enlighten me but I assure you that more people are in favor of getting somewhere quickly rather than needlessly being told to wait when they have other game mechanics (which positively reinforce them with much more dynamic content) to get to. This is compounded with real life time constraints. This is even more compounded with a real life exchange of currency. My "Future Airship Concept Ideas" thread adheres to these people's wishes. It also adhere's to the immersionist as well. The only person it doesn't adhere to, is the elitist. That's one less the they can use to lord over others, not that waiting on an airship is any sort of accomplishment in any way.

I don't think that *clap clap* is poor game design, specifically in the realm of transportation and even more so when there is a lore explanation for it. In fact, the time it give the average player to do the things they want to do will actually add to the longevity of the game through increases sales and retention. Alternatively we could expand the rules of the game to more accurately represent reality. I doubt it takes an hour and a half to walk from Madagascar to Tripoli if Madagascar were located on the other side of Africa so why don't we make that travel have some real "immersion"?

My immersion requirements are fulfilled because they are sustained by my own pursuits. I've personally started reading up on the Pre-Socratics in hopes to better understand the culture and thought processes of the time that were eluded to during the Ebisu event as being relative to the "Persian invasion of Greece" when describing the setting of Final Fantasy XIV. I learned that the naming mechanic "van" present in the Garlean figureheads is a dutch word meaning "from". This knowledge suggests that Gaius is "from" Baelsar and Nael is "from" Darnus. I've enjoyed coming across a real life Greek person who is in my linkshell who, surprisingly, reflects my own vision of the world more than my closest friends in real life.

And there's only room for more. Defined by me.

I'll be looking forward to playing this game and reaping the benefits for a long while to come. The seeds that this game has planted have motivated an introvert to co-found a talk show, talk to others on Ventrilo, and pursue outside interests even if they are only vaguely related to the game itself. I respect this game for it's "laissez faire" style and appreciate the opportunities it has presented in my life. I will begin to disdain the game when it starts to implement filters that bar me from expressing myself and collaborating with the friends I've made by dictating certain features over others and implementing arbitrary boundaries that impede my ability to enjoy the game independently. I'll begin to disdain the development team if they begin to institute a philosophy "my concept of immersion trumps your concept of immerion".

Fortunately I don't think I have to worry about that if the below quote is any indication that the producer revels freedom of choice and adaptability over rigid constraints.

Yoshida: So if you ask what makes FFXIV special, it’s that you can be by yourself, play in a small party, play in a big party, play any class, play differently on the weekends or weekdays, the community size, and the way parties are going that day…. It doesn’t matter because there is so much you can choose from. The job system will be added which just means you could also team up with your friends and enjoy playing as certain jobs. I think all of that is what will make FFXIV different.

Oh, and bolding and italicizing text only helps get your point across to you. It however, does nothing to promote my opinion of your demeanor nor does it open me up to your point of view any more than a well supported argument.