Minor Complaint/Mini Rant

[Dante_V]

I actually like the way the meta is setup. It actually makes tanking and gearing interesting and raises the skill ceiling for both tanking and healing.

[Alahra]

I actually like the way the meta is setup.

I think the meta is largely fine (even if it's not particularly to my taste)--the problem is that the meta runs counter to most of the game's design, though. A tank leveling up from 1-60 learns that he's supposed to Need on VIT gear. Tank stances give bonus enmity, so he'll assume that's what he's supposed to use for tanking, and so on. It's natural for him to gather Fending gear when he hits the cap and starts gathering tomestones. Either the game needs to be retooled to work in accordance with the meta or SE needs to change the game so that the meta doesn't work. The first is preferable, as I think options for playstyles are a good thing.

[Ralvenom]

As someone who very recently stopped FFXIV due to these focus's on tank DPS and went to go tank in WoW. I can say that I feel very that WoW has tanking & healing in a better spot than FFXIV.

WoW has it such that tanking is DOWNRIGHT BORING without tanks working to maximize dps. And, btw, if you haven't raided in heroic or higher (WoW's intermediate raid level)...then you have no business even discussing how tanks "top" the dps meters.

Also, if you're tanking solely to CONTROL a fight, you're doing the BARE MINIMUM. Git gud.

I actually like the way the meta is setup. It actually makes tanking and gearing interesting and raises the skill ceiling for both tanking and healing.

Exactly. WoW tanking in raids was basically, "Stand here, then move. Now move again. Are you bored?! THEN DPS!". In FF14, your tank damage actually matters.

[Wizhard]

WoW has it such that tanking is DOWNRIGHT BORING without tanks working to maximize dps. And, btw, if you haven't raided in heroic or higher (WoW's intermediate raid level)...then you have no business even discussing how tanks "top" the dps meters.

Also, if you're tanking solely to CONTROL a fight, you're doing the BARE MINIMUM. Git gud.

Exactly. WoW tanking in raids was basically, "Stand here, then move. Now move again. Are you bored?! THEN DPS!". In FF14, your tank damage actually matters.

Dropping your tank stance when you are getting murdered by a boss in savage to do more dps does not feel right. Think what you want of it but did not roll a paladin to be sacrificing my mitigation for dps.

[Ralvenom]

Dropping your tank stance when you are getting murdered by a boss in savage to do more dps does not feel right. Think what you want of it but did not roll a paladin to be sacrificing my mitigation for dps.

If you're actually getting murdered by the boss and dropping tank stance, you have more issues than "DO MOAR DEEPS". Part of tanking is knowing/planning when to do certain things, including (but hardly limited to) changing stances or using CDs.

[Wizhard]

If you're actually getting murdered by the boss and dropping tank stance, you have more issues than "DO MOAR DEEPS". Part of tanking is knowing/planning when to do certain things, including (but hardly limited to) changing stances or using CDs.

I am progressing as paladin through A4S, of course i have issues.

[Ralvenom]

I am progressing as paladin through A4S, of course i have issues.

If you actually are in A4S, then you should be able to handle things like that already.

[Wizhard]

If you actually are in A4S, then you should be able to handle things like that already.

I am not talking about handling it. I can handle many a thing. Im saying it feels wrong to be REQUIRED to abandon your tank stance while you are actually tanking.
I did it while tanking phoenix, mostly on a dare, to get 3 bennus. It was not required to complete a fight, i did it because i was interested if i can do it. But now you are required to do it to pass some of the dps checks.

[Syzygian]

If you're actually getting murdered by the boss and dropping tank stance, you have more issues than "DO MOAR DEEPS". Part of tanking is knowing/planning when to do certain things, including (but hardly limited to) changing stances or using CDs.

Doing your rotation and popping your cooldowns properly should be enough for tanks at a given ilvl just like it is enough for DPS at a given ilvl. What I believe people in this thread are asking for is for encounters to be designed with tanks wearing tank gear in mind, not tanks wearing dps gear. There's some work but honestly NO PLAYER SKILL involved in number crunching and maximizing stats. The fact that they are designing raids knowing full well that tanks are not using tank gear is straight-up unbalancing the game. There's literally no reason for it. Just design the content to be clearable with jobs designed to be wearing gear they are designed to wear.

People have this idiotic mentality that wearing STR gear or pentamelds somehow makes them smarter more informed or even more skilled players. Everyone believes that that is straight-up the right way to play, and its not even their fault, its a fault, and a huge one, of the design. Why even have tank accessories if the hardest content in the game is not clearable outside of a huge left-side gear gate with them? Why even waste the programming code? They HAVE to know that this is what's happening and what everyone in the raiding community no matter how casual is looking to for inspiration and guidance on how to play their job. They've made it the "right" way to play. And its dissatisfying to people that want to play tanking jobs. What the current meta caters to is people that want to play DPS, but at the same time, they get to hold aggro and take the hits, which as you might imagine, is a huge rush. So essentially one job type is enjoying the perks of two, but really, its about DPS.

And what people that want to play a TANK (a TANK TANK) want is not to do crap DPS, but they want their itemization and encounter design to allow them to favor their actual tanking primary and secondary stats, whilst having the DPS ceiling for such gear be adequate, given optimal performance on their part, to clear the hardest content in the game. There's literally no reason for a tank that knows his/her optimal DPS GCD and offensive cooldown rotation like the back of their hand and who performs consistently at the ceiling of the job's design to be gated from clearing the game's hardest content by whether or not they are wearing the accessories of another job.

Imagine if the tables were turned and game was designed with considerably more raidwide damage (think T13, but worse), and DPS jobs had to consistently sacrifice their primary and secondary stats for excess VIT, etc. just to get through fights, and that was considered the "proper" way to play the job? What about the people that JUST want to DPS and don't want to have to achieve the survivability of tanks beyond what is normally asked of non-tanks (not standing in fire, dodging AoEs, etc.)?

Here's a brain teaser:

What would people do if suddenly accessories were made job-specific and crafted accessories were designed to no longer be outperforming gear ***60*** ilvls higher given melds?

[RapBreon]

Doing your rotation and popping your cooldowns properly should be enough for tanks at a given ilvl just like it is enough for DPS at a given ilvl. What I believe people in this thread are asking for is for encounters to be designed with tanks wearing tank gear in mind, not tanks wearing dps gear. There's some work but honestly NO PLAYER SKILL involved in number crunching and maximizing stats. The fact that they are designing raids knowing full well that tanks are not using tank gear is straight-up unbalancing the game. There's literally no reason for it. Just design the content to be clearable with jobs designed to be wearing gear they are designed to wear.

You make it sound so easy!

#rippleeffectisntreal