Red Mage (Tank) Please!

[Krylo]

They're exactly what they were pre-Heavensward, not counting the pre-expansion lull period when subs are more apt to drop.

Listen, I'm not going to argue over things neither of us can prove, BUT, here's the thing:

There's, what? 5? 10 posts? In this thread saying 'rdm should be caster because there's 2 casters and 3 tanks'. If the ratio isn't going to change anything then THAT doesn't matter either.

Also, even if you think things will completely normalize eventually, most people hate the idea of sam as tank because A: already have a two handed sword tank, B: no sword melee DPS. No one wants Rdm to be tank, and most don't like the idea of it being heals either (which, I agree, is completely different from Rdm's role in the other games, with the possible exception of FFXI? I never played that). Everyone also wants Blu to be DPS because it's just a weird class that never really fit as tank or heals in any of its previous incarnations.

Whenever new classes are released people try them. Lots of people. From every class. And, yes, some people stick with them--yes we did lose some tanks to ninja, and lost some DPS to drk--but even if that wasn't the case, that'd still be between 2 and 6 weeks of absolutely abysmal queue times.

Further: People do, indeed, try new classes outside of their favored role and stick with them. You can, indeed, get DPS players tanking by offering them new tanking experiences until one clicks with them. It's one of the many strategies that multiplayer games use to get people to play the needed roles. Most games shoot for closer to a 40% ratio of classes tank capable to try and get parties to fill (of course most games also allow tanking classes to use DPS builds, which gets people hooked on the class and then people ask them to try tanking, etc. etc. but that's a whole other thing).

[Assirra]

Further: People do, indeed, try new classes outside of their favored role and stick with them. You can, indeed, get DPS players tanking by offering them new tanking experiences until one clicks with them. It's one of the many strategies that multiplayer games use to get people to play the needed roles. Most games shoot for closer to a 40% ratio of classes tank capable to try and get parties to fill (of course most games also allow tanking classes to use DPS builds, which gets people hooked on the class and then people ask them to try tanking, etc. etc. but that's a whole other thing).

Sorry but no. World of Warcraft tried for years to make tanking more appealing through a various amount of ways and new classes but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of people simply do not want to tank. At one point they even gave tanks a stat called resolve which let you do more damage the more you got hit. This resulted in tanks being nothing more than dps with big health pools that could take hits. Sure you have the odd man out, and at the same time you have a tank that switches to dps/healer instead. Your ratio stays exactly the same.

[Kaurie]

There's, what? 5? 10 posts? In this thread saying 'rdm should be caster because there's 2 casters and 3 tanks'. If the ratio isn't going to change anything then THAT doesn't matter either.

Not sure if this is what those posters meant, but this is how I interpreted it:

The ratio of 2 casters to 3 tanks meaning we should have another caster has absolutely nothing to do with queue times. It does have to do with providing options for people who prefer to play in that niche. For example, I love playing magic damage type jobs, and am fairly underwhelmed by both BLM and SMN. I play SMN now, and yes it's fun, but it's not exactly what I want. It would be awesome if there were more magic damage jobs to choose from.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Not sure if this is what those posters meant, but this is how I interpreted it:

The ratio of 2 casters to 3 tanks meaning we should have another caster has absolutely nothing to do with queue times. It does have to do with providing options for people who prefer to play in that niche. For example, I love playing magic damage type jobs, and am fairly underwhelmed by both BLM and SMN. I play SMN now, and yes it's fun, but it's not exactly what I want. It would be awesome if there were more magic damage jobs to choose from.

Except there is no Magic Caster type tank job. However there are many caster type DPS jobs.

[Kaurie]

Except there is no Magic Caster type tank job. However there are many caster type DPS jobs.

Not invalidating your request. There are no magic caster tank jobs, and it would be neat.

Personally, I'd like to see more varying playstyle in casters.

I'd watch your posts though, you've contradicted yourself. i.e.

"Hybrids cannot work in a game where all classes are designed to be one role. The only class that has multiple roles is tanks which can heal and dps well."
vs
"White Mage is also a ranged caster, so is Scholar. So is Astrologer. It has the same playstyle when you throw on cleric stance."

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Not invalidating your request. There are no magic caster tank jobs, and it would be neat.

Personally, I'd like to see more varying playstyle in casters.

I'd watch your posts though, you've contradicted yourself. i.e.

"Hybrids cannot work in a game where all classes are designed to be one role. The only class that has multiple roles is tanks which can heal and dps well."
vs
"White Mage is also a ranged caster, so is Scholar. So is Astrologer. It has the same playstyle when you throw on cleric stance."

We have Bard, We have Machinist, We have Summoner, We have Black Mage for DPS
For healing casters we have White Mage, Scholar, Astrologer.

For Tank we have.. Nothing.

Also, White Mage/Scholar/Astrologer indeed do have that same role when they use Cleric Stance, however whilst they do the tank is getting his face melted

Tanks are generally considered "boring" because the nature of their role does not allow them to possess the mechanical complexity inherent in dps. If tanking required as much mechanical skill as dps without a drastic shift in encounter mechanics almost no one would do it.

Can still make a fun tank with some interesting mechanics as long as its not too complex.

Well it could be a tank or a support really. Personally I'd like to see a tank class ppl won't avoid like the plague cause "its boring". News flash: All roles press a sequence of buttons resulting in causing cascading numbers to appear in your screen(how larger numbers affect fun I'll never understand) so please SE, give us more " interesting " tanks to utilize.

I agree =3

[Noxifer]

We have Bard, We have Machinist, We have Summoner, We have Black Mage for DPS
For healing casters we have White Mage, Scholar, Astrologer.

I think what Kaurie meant was that your contradiction was about you saying hybrid jobs aren't viable in this game, and then the next moment you're saying that healers function as casters whenever they apply Cleric Stance. Ergo, hybrid jobs already exist, it's just not possible for a healer to queue as dps* unless they go in with a full group (which my FC has done while levelling 50-60 when we had two tanks or two healers in the same level range).

*) Unless you're a Scholar and switch to Summoner, of course.

I may have skipped a bunch of the thread, but how exactly do you tank at a range?

I've actually wondered that ever since I noticed that one of the classes/roles in SWtOR was a ranged tank. I never tried it out, though, so I still have no clue how it works. xD