Heavensword 2* Red Scrip Crafting Rotation

[scarebearz]

You are exaggerating on how frequently this occurs though.

If you use a "hasty" method of crafting frequently, surely you should know how common failing 3 out of 4 hasty touch is? They are the same % success rate, so it's the same frequency.

[Katlyna]

"Common" implies frequently occurring. 3 out of 4 failure is not common. Its uncommon. It happens yes. The sim I have access to indicates there is statistically a 2-3% chance of this occurring.

Regardless, yes, one of the advantages of a flawless synthesis approach is in the progress being more recoverable when reliability fails (while still being quite efficient). Personally I've made gobs of items (I'm the master crafter for an FC of 500 members with around 200 active). I also haven't NQed a single 2* red scrip item. So yes I understand the pros and cons to different approaches, occurrence rates, recovery etc.

I am still exploring my full feelings around how I would use flawless synthesis in a full approach of my own using my preferred approach. Personally I'm not a huge fan because I don't like swapping for macros and I make magnitudes more items via macros than by hand. With this said I think I'm at a point where I could fit a flawless synthesis approach in with my macros.

[Thrustie]

Well compared to Rath's MM rotation, it appears yours has 10 hasty opportunities while his has 11. And it seems like yours has a fairly decent chance to have Rapid Synth eat one of your hasty chances. I'm glad to see more options thrown out there using different strats (considering I've contributed none) but it still seems to me that Rath's is generally stronger. Although yours is viable for those with lower CP than Rath's which is great.

[Rath]

"Common" implies frequently occurring. 3 out of 4 failure is not common. Its uncommon. It happens yes. The sim I have access to indicates there is statistically a 2-3% chance of this occurring.

Regardless, yes, one of the advantages of a flawless synthesis approach is in the progress being more recoverable when reliability fails (while still being quite efficient). Personally I've made gobs of items (I'm the master crafter for an FC of 500 members with around 200 active). I also haven't NQed a single 2* red scrip item. So yes I understand the pros and cons to different approaches, occurrence rates, recovery etc.

I am still exploring my full feelings around how I would use flawless synthesis in a full approach of my own using my preferred approach.

First: 718 is the min craft for 2 star 714 will not work regardless of it technically working.

Second: There will almost always be a failure in there somewhere, so at most you will get 10 Iq without PT. The MaMa rotation you posted (the one from the other thread) has 11 HT, 1 more then yours so a failure still can result in 11 iq without PT. It also requires the same CP as yours (also every 18 CP reduces RNG on all HT synthing rotations, so that is irrelevant), and the same base craft/control.

Third: As scarebearz pointed out, a flawless synth failure is a loss of 40 progress, you can fail up to 2 times with no consequences at all. A RS failure is a loss of a HT in your synthesis no matter what. Also you argue that you will not likely fail 2/4 80% RS, but you expect people to fail 2 90% Flawless. Also, with higher crafting gear (like a mh/oh tool) you require less and less flawless to succeed. I currently need 5/8 and have CP for 1 PT without ToT.

Fourth: The sim you use shows a ~5% reliability on your synthesis as is, and the MaMa rotation has ~50% reliability.

Fifth: These rotations can be used as is, but there are ways to improve both of them on the fly depending on procs. Good procs can always help a synthesis out when used at the right times. I worked on that rotation mainly for forum and ls/fc members that were asking questions. I use it as a base starting point, but I do not follow it exactly.

[Katlyna]

As I mentioned there are pros and cons to both rotations. But I never said I expect two 90% flawless to fail. I simply presented statistically the success rates of each option. They are statically similar in success rate but as highlighted the Muscle memory does suffer as more rapid synths fail. On the other hand it benefits from having more CP overall to have more basic/precise touches. Tip on the sim the progress estimate isn't accurate unless you include all attempted progress steps (including ones you wouldn't do unless the others failed) that is why neither probability is accurate when looking at the full rotation.

The Flawless approach has some notable cons as well not discussed here. Such as Blacksmith not having enough cross class skill slots such that they must choose between ToT, Innovation, and Reclaim. Some others have to also choose between two from ToT, Innovation, and Reclaim. In comparison with Muscle Memory only Leatherworker must choose between two from ToT, Innovation, and Reclaim.

With this said Innovation is harder to place in the Muscle memory approach, I would only use it directly before the last SHII (and only if there was enough CP for no more hasty touches). But thanks for the notes as its good to compare and contrast ;-)

[Mature]

Just seen you updated your main post, from where do you get those rotation stats? With pictures? Cheers!

[Katlyna]

http://ffxiv-beta.lokyst.net/#/simulator
Their heavensword beta simulator is up and running now. I ran it through the ringer the last few days and the metrics all look sane. I then snapshot these and upload them to my google drive ;-) Thanks for the feedback!

[Mature]

No thank you! for this solid rotation and sharing it!. It would be great if you upload it someday!

Thanks!

[TechnoTechie]

On the other hand it benefits from having more CP overall to have more basic/precise touches.

Actually, Rath's requires 3 less CP. the 22 extra CP is to ensure your PBPs succeed, but a 90% chance isn't that bad. if you *really* wanted to save the cp you could go with rath's, have a better success rate (90% vs 80%) on progress, *and* you still get those 11 hasty touch opportunities with just as many basic/precise touches.

[AnimaS]

MaMa 100% every good is a precisetouch (2=5 3=7) before even starting progress. Begin with MAMA CZ IQ (use TOT) now SHII flawless repeat every good use precise touch till done. Refresh CZ. Can anyone argue this is bad? I've started on avg with 5 stacks, so 20 durability lost and around 380progress. I dont needto worry about hasty touches just ingenuity and rapid and adapt to procs. A rotation set in stone on these is impossible if you cannot adapt you should go mine.