To all the flames on primal datacenter...

[Dimitrii]

What exactly did Mael offer you to get you to help them win this much? Are Adders allowed to counteroffer? I'm seeing a very obvious pattern of every game that gets out of the flames reach they just bum rush adders spawn and ignore mael when they are up 300 points with three spawns. It's basically every game when flames are in last. I'm just curious how this win trading came about, and if we can maybe get you to be ours goons for a weekend or something. This is exactly why gc's need to be removed, and 1v1v1 was a bad idea from the start. 1v1v1 just turns into cutthroat 2v1 and im pretty tired of 2v1. I swear im going to start taping my matches in the hopes of actually seeing flames attack whoever is in the lead once.

I'm a maelstrom from primal data center and no there is no such agreement in place. In fact alot of us on this side complain that the flames hand you guys too many wins so this is all just confirmation bias as people have already stated in thread.

Unfortunately for the flames they are the weakest of the 3 gc on primal data center (although they do have really good premades pop up once in a blue moon) and it seems alot of em there have a mentality of "oh we not gonna win anyway so lets just fk up one of the other GCs".

Once they select who it is they wanna torment they will relentlessly attack that GC, regardless of score or node placements, and what ALWAYS happens is the GC that isnt the target of this fixation will notice this and proceed to take advantage of it by throttling the victim with a pincer attack.

Both adders (don't even try to deny it we've seen it happen to us time and time again and it was happening all weekend) and maelstrom do this. Its gotten to the point where we have to think twice now about advancing on flames when they have 2 nodes cause we always have to keep our heads on a swivel waiting for that inevitable pincer that the adders will bring if we make ourselves the center of the flames attention.

I do agree that this situation is exactly why three way fights just dont work so well here (unless ALL 3 GC are more or less balanced in strength which is not the case here and will never be the case due to human element) and it should just be two teams fighting 1 v 1.

[RiceisNice]

Unfortunately for the flames they are the weakest of the 3 gc on primal data center (although they do have really good premades pop up once in a blue moon) and it seems alot of em there have a mentality of "oh we not gonna win anyway so lets just fk up one of the other GCs".

This is what really bugs me with the implementation of seize and the requirements for the achievements for both old and new (first place or bust). No matter how well your plays are, you are never in a good position to win if you're always being hounded by that GC who gives up and ultimately gets to decide who gets first and second.

Of course it's very well possible to come back from a 400 point deficit and still win, but at that point you're dependent on the other two GCs to slip up and give you a chance to do so. And well, hope you don't have a bunch of people who'd just settle for second because it honestly means moot (doesn't even give that much more currency or exp).

As the one that normally makes the calls, I hit the team that either has one or two node depending on what's the most opportunistic. If we and mael only have one nodes on the beach and close together, while flames is sitting with two on caves, I'm sure as hell not mobilizing to hit flames because I know that the maelstrom are thinking the same thing as me; Flames is too far away and their defenses will be extremely cluttered that we'd never win unless their alliance was divided (which would mean they were defending two points, which requires two GCs). Really it's a prisoner's delimina then and you're honestly not in a good position when that happens.

[Farrell]

@Dimitrii Much of what you said made a lot of sense. Thank you for the level headed response.

[JubjubTubs]

Both adders (don't even try to deny it we've seen it happen to us time and time again and it was happening all weekend) and maelstrom do this. Its gotten to the point where we have to think twice now about advancing on flames when they have 2 nodes cause we always have to keep our heads on a swivel waiting for that inevitable pincer that the adders will bring if we make ourselves the center of the flames attention.

When Jubs attempts to lead Serpderps... Jubs is trying to get people to attack the team with two nodes vs the one with one node, as the former has their forces split and is much more prone to a flank. Don't care what banner owns what... only relevant thing is 1st place, and doing the more statistical sound choices over and over will yield a higher win ratio. Notice what Jubs bolded... people listening to sound battle tactics is something else entirely. Bad players and/or bad leaders might lead to conspiracy theories.

[Februs]

Unfortunately for the flames they are the weakest of the 3 gc on primal data center (although they do have really good premades pop up once in a blue moon) and it seems alot of em there have a mentality of "oh we not gonna win anyway so lets just fk up one of the other GCs".

...

Both adders (don't even try to deny it we've seen it happen to us time and time again and it was happening all weekend) and maelstrom do this. Its gotten to the point where we have to think twice now about advancing on flames when they have 2 nodes cause we always have to keep our heads on a swivel waiting for that inevitable pincer that the adders will bring if we make ourselves the center of the flames attention.
1.

This made me laugh, and is very true. but I've just as often seen the attitude of "oh, we're not gonna win, so lets just sit around and sing songs to one another," and those of us who like to try are like, "really guys? Really?" -_-; IF they even fight, it usually just comes down to whoever is on their doorstep, because they're forcing the issue and cultivating a grudge. It has nothing to do with alliances or back door deals.

I agree with your pincer comment too. You are right about it. I can attest that Flames often aim for the sandwich tactic; however, I can also attest to the fact that, if and when they do a pincer, it's almost always when the team is at least trying to win or still has some kind of resemblance to a team. Most of the pincers I've seen the flames do are usually against the 1st place team. That being said, I've noticed that not all of the GC's aim for that 1st place pincer.

Mael seems to aim for 1st when they pincer, unless already occupied elsewhere; however, a lot of the Adder hate that happens in the Flame camp comes form the fact that Adders, at least seem to, consistently aim to pincer the 2nd place team or the 3rd place team, and it leads to grudge cycling. I'm not sure if it actually is a common thing or not for the Adders, but I've never seen someone say, "typical cowardly Mael. Attacking the losing team for farm points." It's almost always, "typical cowardly Adders." I don't know if we just happen to notice it more when it's the Adders, or what, but the Pincer maneuver has definitely led to some grudges against the snakes which can lead to some focusing against them, especially if our team is guaranteed to lose, or has too many Debbie Downers to attempt a counter attack.

That being said, I, personally, have never seen that grudge extend beyond the end of a match. If there's Adder/Mael hate in the following match, it's because they did something new to piss off or bait the Flames in that match.