Did Yoshi P messed up the relics Im trying to understand the meaning of this help me!

[Assirra]

Im trying to tell you that it does not have to go this path either. I understand that the dev want it this why but there is no need for everything to be like that. Make one thing feel unique genuine and rewarding for that matter too. It is a disrespect When you grind your ass off for something to be rare. It kills the Joy of something beeing unique valuable and pretty much says we who love this game so much that devote something to it should be rewarded too. Not just the mentality of I pay for a subscription so I must have everything you have just not be "first" at it. Yoshi P will most likely kill the game himself with these handouts eventually. Game will have a lifrspan of tops 5 years.

Yes it has to go this path. Both the majority of the players and the devs want it. The only one that doesn't want it is you.
Also, if you want a long term goal that takes years to get, play a free korean mmo without paying a single cent.
You will learn a new meaning of grind.

[karateorangutang]

I fail to see how having a higher level cap changes the point I was making, but kudos for completely missing the point. The point was that when a patch was released which upgraded levels and weapons in FFXI, the relics leveled up with them. It doesn't matter what the end level for ARR is, nor do I really care, the fact remains that the current relics have not leveled with the release of Heavensward and according to Yoshi, never will.

It has absolutely nothing to do with level cap or ilvl at all for that matter. It's all about current game market trends and MMO's in general. Your looking at a field of business that not only has to be visually appealing, but also has to snap attention to players within the first several hours of play. Even then, you need to give rewards to keep the current gaming population happy. I don't understand why that is so hard to people to understand that games are built around their majority playerbase, which for this game is a rather casual gamer.

It makes sense that the dev team would make quests available so even casual gamers would be able to access the games harder content at the later end of its apex of difficulty through a time driven quest means.

[Lemuria]

It makes sense that the dev team would make quests available so even casual gamers would be able to access the games harder content at the later end of its apex of difficulty through a time driven quest means.

There are so many things in the game already which are far from casual friendly that this argument no longer holds water. One glance at the scrip system for gatherers/crafters can tell you the direction the devs seem to want to take things, and crafting is about as casual as it gets in all other areas.

At any rate, that doesn't mean we can't have anything to aspire towards. Most casual players don't mind if something takes a while to do, it'll just take a while longer for them. What bothers them is investing all that time on something which is made redundant soon after. Our relics are a casualty of the vertical progression in this game, and instead of allowing them to progress they've opted to stagnate them instead. That hurts casuals far more than letting them continue to grow in the long run.

[karateorangutang]

There are so many things in the game already which are far from casual friendly that this argument no longer holds water. One glance at the scrip system for gatherers/crafters can tell you the direction the devs seem to want to take things, and crafting is about as casual as it gets in all other areas.

At any rate, that doesn't mean we can't have anything to aspire towards. Most casual players don't mind if something takes a while to do, it'll just take a while longer for them. What bothers them is investing all that time on something which is made redundant soon after. Our relics are a casualty of the vertical progression in this game, and instead of allowing them to progress they've opted to stagnate them instead. That hurts casuals far more than letting them continue to grow in the long run.

Ok... so your saying to not sell to a market full of money using the games features as an advantage?

That's bad business and if you can't see that then this argument really is moot because your not giving me any real argument other than "Some players would like to grind out more quests to feel more special."

If it's lore you want, thats easily attainable even with a reset on the new relic, so I'm having a hard time seeing your point.

[MageBlack]

It's all about current game market trends and MMO's in general.

*sorry, using this comment as an example. I actually agree with what you were saying.*

Are you sure about that? Could it also be about building a solid foundation for the game out of the rubble that was 1.0, then once the foundation is solid (still a few rocky places) they can stop building upward and start to build outward. I don't think there are plans to raise the level cap with each expansion so I would be willing to bet money that, (as long as 4.0 doesnt raise the cap) we will get some lateral progression then.

Regardless, the game is currently succeeding with its present model so these "the game will fail utterly if I'm not listened to" threads are falling flat right out the gate. No need to build a strawman of doom and gloom to make your point valid for if that's what you are relying on, you wont ever get what you want. Bad arguments are bad arguments...

To speak to the conversation you two were having, I'm one of those casuals. I casually messed with the Relic progression, Got to the Alex stage and heard they were going to reduce some of the requirements. Rather than get upset I thought "Awesome!, I'll just wait for that to be implemented then I'll complete the quests for glamor." And its not like it was a drastic reduction anyway. The OP just loves to exaggerate things.

[karateorangutang]

Are you sure about that? Could it also be about building a solid foundation for the game out of the rubble that was 1.0, then once the foundation is solid (still a few rocky places) they can start to build outward. I don't think there are plans to raise the level cap with each expansion so I would be willing to bet money that, as long as 4.0 doesnt raise the cap) we will get some lateral progression then.

Regardless, the game is currently succeeding with its present model so these "the game will fail utterly if I'm not listened to" threads are falling flat right out the gate. No need to build a strawman of doom and gloom to make your point valid for if that's what you are relying on, you wont ever get what you want. Bad arguments are bad arguments...

Thats my point though the game is doing really well with its exceedingly casual gaming outlook. Adding more content at the other end of the spectrum could spook players. Gaming is going in the direction of more casual play and with good reason. Mobile platforms are more and more prolific.

I think you mistook my point.

*Just read your edit lol, so yeah*

[MageBlack]

Thats my point though the game is doing really well with its exceedingly casual gaming outlook. Adding more content at the other end of the spectrum could spook players. Gaming is going in the direction of more casual play and with good reason. Mobile platforms are more and more prolific.

I think you mistook my point.

*Just read your edit lol, so yeah*

Lol, sorry bout that, I edited it again.

[Naliee]

@ Skizzle:

So the new relic will be basically handed to us? No grind involved? The old relic will have zero bearing on the new relic so it wont matter if we do the previous stages at all? and the new relic will not be the BiS with each successive upgrade step in the patches? Can you link to where they gave these details, cause I think I missed them. Or are you just building a straw man so you can tear it down over and over again to get some sympathy for being so persecuted? I'm just trying to understand, that's all.

I'm still waiting you to give some source of info. Not on the 22nd of August though, because then I'm waiting to see some REAL INFO from Yoshida.

Im trying to tell you that it does not have to go this path either. I understand that the dev want it this

Then why are you still going on about this if you understand the dev wants this? And let me remind you again that we don't have any real info on about new 3.1 relic, only that Zeta are getting "CONSIDERATION"

Make one thing feel unique genuine and rewarding for that matter too. It is a disrespect When you grind your ass off for something to be rare. It kills the Joy of something beeing unique valuable and pretty much says we who love this game so much that devote something to it should be rewarded too. Not just the mentality of I pay for a subscription so I must have everything you have just not be "first" at it.

Um... Remember it was players that asked zodiac to be nerfed? Where were you then?

Yoshi P will most likely kill the game himself with these handouts eventually. Game will have a lifrspan of tops 5 years.

He's not "handing" out anything. You still have to grind for the zodiac if you want it. With nerfs that can be bitchy to you with RNG.

And let me remind you once again, Did Yoshi P messed up the relics Im trying to understand the meaning of this help me!. That is the topic of this thread is it not? Yes it is and it seems like MAJORITY of the players think Yoshi DIDN'T mess up relics.

And you were asking us to help you understand. Well there's 24 pages of to read.

[Zarzak]

1. Yes doing those super hard lvl 20 dungeons and the like were a trial I understand...

2. Ever since WoW raiders have had their efforts reset every expansion (the actually challenging efforts)

[Lemuria]

Ok... so your saying to not sell to a market full of money using the games features as an advantage?

If you can point to even one fact that suggests that having obtainable long-term goals isn't casual friendly, you might have an argument. You say you can't see my point, but it's because you're looking in the wrong place.

You have this strange idea that relics can't be casual goals, or that by having them as such they need to be made redundant every update just because the new players will have to go through it all. Well, I have my relic. It took me one full year and two weeks to accomplish through casual play. Several steps were made easier since then, and new players obtaining their relic will have an easier time getting to the stage I'm at now. I'm totally fine with that.

You see what I'm getting at? There's no risk involved if you make the earlier steps easier to progress through. It remains casual friendly, and allows new players to 'catch up' as it were, while still keeping them relevant at high levels. There's absolutely no problem with condensing earlier steps so that people can get through it easier, but have that carrot on the end of the stick. Make them worthwhile, and make the current 'endgame' level upgrades challenging enough that you feel duly rewarded.

You can have your cake and eat it, you just have to be willing to bake it.