Did Yoshi P messed up the relics Im trying to understand the meaning of this help me!

[Hyrist]

I mean the daily post limit, guess it's saying I should be less active on this forum.

But anyway, I'm likely not going to post on this subject anymore as I've you've blown my argument out of the water, and changed the way I view it, rather than just claiming it should be nerfed because it's old content and that's that.

Another way of viewing it is the view the art of war in real life. Gone are the days when a finely crafted weapon was designed to stand the test of wear and time. And most of those only existed in mythology anyways. Weapons are constantly redesigned, re-evaluated looked at scientifically and practically, to improve, to become more effective than its previous iteration.

And the Relic quest line very much embodies that. Masked under the veil of trying to recreate a Relic of Olde, your character is set on a quest to constantly redefine, improve, redesign the weapon they currently have. And when we begin the new Relic line, we are going to approach that again.

I'm going to make a speculative call here and say that the new Relic Weapon quest-line gives people with a completed Zeta a head start because they'll be working off the weapon they created as a reference point to improve upon.

But the reproduction of the older weapons? They're going to be easier to make now that the pioneering process of it is finished. Production of it will be refined, it will be capable of being mass produced. It's a side effect of the War Machine. Indelible legends becoming General Issue. That's why it's important to stay ahead.

[SkizzleofRagnarok]

No one here is trolling. My FC has nothing to do with it and these personal attacks are kinda corny. I enjoy grinding when its rewarding I have no desire in dedicating time into something that will be unrewarding in a videogame just because some new generation can't handle the type of progression games like EQ FFXI among others offered. The idea of feeling you earned and acheived something should be equal for all not some way of disrespect like it now that stuff gets nerfed from left to right. Every other weapon in the game can be acheived the easy way even the ones you buy with currency. Its just one lousy thing to leave untouched to make it feel rewarding and only people who are willing to spend gil and timesink it can get it and not this horrid just because you pay for a subscription its now a glamour weapon instead because of new content.
The weapon itself should have kept growing this new chapter if its gonna give a new weapon is a pure disrespect towards anyone who bothered.
If everyone else spent millions of gils and spent countless hours and tries doing a dungeon over and over again why should you get a handout? This content could have been untouched and could have been something for thoese who really desire this instead of oh didnt you know? New MMORPGS that get updated everything gets old. It does not have to be this way. So yea I still blame Yoshi P for not using some elements from FFXI. Gears from FFXI could be upgraded why is it so hard to keep a tiny portion of this alive in FFXIV?
You can buy an i200 weapon with eoterics. You can get a group and learn primals or savage or whatever for new weapons even overmelding weapons all these things are faster to obtain than a relic so why cant you just leave this one damn thing alone and let it be as it is? Everything else but the relic here can get mega nerfed with everything else that gets released why cant one damn segment of a game just have some sort of horizontal progression? Is it really too much to ask when everything else is Vertical?

[Shayanzas]

"You can buy an i200 weapon with eoterics. You can get a group and learn primals or savage or whatever for new weapons even overmelding weapons all these things are faster to obtain than a relic so why cant you just leave this one damn thing alone and let it be as it is?"

It's a tedious grind dude. It takes no effort whatsoever, it's mashing your head into the keyboard until you get something, and the reason people do the relic is because they can't "just get a weapan and learn savage or whatever"

It takes way more effort to raid than it ever did to do a relic quest, and raiding got nerfed and got echo, for everyone. It's the way the game worked. Relic progression didn't even get that nerfed, if you wanna show off a senseless grind, then go do the bullshit achievements that give you titles if you want to show off, if you're talking about integrity for the game, you should consider all aspects, not just relics cause you're too bad to do anything else but bitch on the forums.

[LunaHoshino]

Effort should be proportional to the rewards. When the Relic Weapons were relevant, the reward you got was one of the best weapons in the game. But now? It's just glamour, so it's only fitting that the amount of effort required to get it be reduced to match what you're getting out of it.

There is literally no reason to make players go through the entire Relic questline as it was in its heyday when all they're getting out of it is a pretty shiny for dressup.

[SDaemon]

Effort should be proportional to the rewards. When the Relic Weapons were relevant, the reward you got was one of the best weapons in the game. But now? It's just glamour, so it's only fitting that the amount of effort required to get it be reduced to match what you're getting out of it.

There is literally no reason to make players go through the entire Relic questline as it was in its heyday when all they're getting out of it is a pretty shiny for dressup.

Agree, but just want to add:

People wouldn't even be doing the grind we did in the heydays if things weren't nerfed. The dungeons, the trials, the atma farming, the alexandrite farming, the light farming, the dungeon drop for zodiac, everything about the relic quest would be exponentially more difficult in 3.0 then it was when each step was current and all of it for a glamour item.

And not to mention that ridiculous point Skizzle likes to make about all the gil people put into it. There was no massive required gil sink and the npc items were reasonably cheap. If players spent millions of gil on their materia that was on them for not wanting to spirit-bond, as well as their realm's economy! Compared to when the novus was the latest craze, the prices of IVs are a joke! Are you going to demand that the economy re-adjust itself so that players doing the nerfed relics have to dish out massive amounts of gil? Not that someone doing the relic now for glamour (because that is all its worth) would even care about the stats on the thing!

[Sethra]

It is funny that so many say that the relic is for casuals, when at least 3/5 to 4/5 of the players I've seen with completed relics are hardcore raiders. Most casuals didn't have the time or gil to grind the relic all the way.

During 2.x, a lot of people had Zenith weapons because it was cake. Very few got to Novus, Nexus or Zenith. Of the few, I'd bet most were raiders. Relic was BiS for short periods and many raiders used it.

Edit to add: I know several casuals that QUIT THE GAME because of the relic quest: two at the Atma stage (prenerf), three at the Alexandrite stage (prenerf).

[Jim_Berry]

Ok, seriously...what part of "irrelevant items now" did you not understand ?

Or, you're naive enough so that you think items in the first year of an MMO will always be useful ?

They COULD be useful, though. Going back to FFXI, the Relic weapons and Artifact gear were how many years old? You got Artifact gear at levels 52, 54, 56, 58, and 60 while the Artifact weapon was Lv 40 (Relic weapon was Lv75). The Level cap on jobs were 75 for a long time before Lv80 became the cap in 2010, with upgrade to your Relic weapon and Artifact gear being in 2013.

[SkizzleofRagnarok]

Jim_Berry: This is why vertical progression sucks. Artifact Armor are good for how long here? 3 hours fategrinding in northern thanalan? Good Job Yoshi P Good Job! Thats what happens when you level too fast you have handouts from left to right and try so hard to cater to one of the disloyal customer groups that will just jump to the next mmorpg for the love of money while killing the heart of the game. Lets hope Yoshi P wakes up someday. Maybe when Blizzards new MMORPG comes out or something.

[Reynhart]

They COULD be useful, though. Going back to FFXI, the Relic weapons and Artifact gear were how many years old?

In FFXI, Artifact was crap at 75, EXCEPT, for the only specific boost to one of your spell/ability.

So, you got it, in your inventory, use a macro to swap gear for one cast, then switch back to your far more powerful lvl 75 gear.
Weren't you able to gear swap in combat, your Artifact gear would have gathered dust for years.

And relics become useless as soon as the level cap increased. But, of course, they designed ways to improve them, so that all the time you spent wasn't for nothing.
Yet, they relained far less powerful than their Empyrean counterpart (With a few exception), even though Empyrean Weapons were far less time consuming.

[Airget]

What you are saying is that your time spent on getting the relics is worth more than those who had to work together to beat coil. At least that's how it reads, you don't seem to understand that relics were designed as an alternative, non-endgame like route to obtain a strong weapon that leveled up alongside you.

Another thing you neglect is what exactly were the options for weapons during 2.0. Most weapons from 2.0 either came from coil, a combination of coil+tome or extreme primals. Not everyone wanted to do primals, not everyone wanted to do coil, not everyone was able to do coil to obtain the requirement to obtain the weapon, so where did that leave people, relics.

Let's use Ninja for example, from 100-135 these were the options.

-Yoshimatsu Animus/Atma=100 ((RELIC))

-Tidal Wave Kris=100 ((Primal Extreme IL 80+)) Weapons + Mirror

-Thundersparks=100 ((Primal Extreme IL 85+)) Drop

-Weather Vajras=100 10 tokens aka 650 soldiery + 1 unidentifited allagan tome ((came from coil first then later tower))

-Yoshimatsu Novus=100 ((RELIC))

-Vajras=110 Sands of time from Coil, then tower, then hunts, tower/hunts think were at the same time

-Wootz Daggers=110 ((CRAFT))

-True Ice Dagger=110 ((Primal Extreme IL 95+)) Drop

-Diamond Daggers=115 ((Primal Extreme IL 95+)) Trade weapon + 5 Diamond dust which dropped from fight

-Yoshimatsu Nexus=115 ((RELIC))

-High Allagan Cleavers=115 (( Second Coil Last Boss potential Drop))

-Ironworks Magitek Daggers=120 10 tokens/ 1300 poetics + encrypted tomestone which came from coil first, then a weekly quest reward from doing all three towers

-Sasuke's Blades=125 ((RELIC))

-Augmented Ironworks Magitek Daggers=130 Weapon + Carbontwine Drop from coil, then laster added as weekly quest reward to tower and also hunts

-Sasuke's Blades Zeta=135 ((RELIC))

-Dreadwyrm Daggers=135 Final Coil Boss

See as a relic holder, you become ignorant towards how hard it was to acquire a decent weapon unless you did coil, or you did primals, by doing Relic you said to yourself, I see a path in front of me, and once i finish all these objectives I"m guaranteed my prize.

With Primal Extremes it's needing people to tackle the content, hoping your weapon drops and grinding for an unknown time til it drops. The same with coil, but for coil it's even worse, because the weapon from the coil bosses themselves were just one try a week, if you beat the boss and didn't get the weapon better luck next week but you could get a token that could be used to get a weapon that was slightly worse than what the boss could drop.

With that in mind, there was nothing wrong with the relic progression, it was good for those who didn't want to spam extremes or do coil and it served it's purpose for 2.0.

Imagine 2.0 if you didn't go for relic, and look I"ll make it easy for you, this would be the reality of it.


-Tidal Wave Kris=100 ((Primal Extreme IL 80+)) Weapons + Mirror

-Thundersparks=100 ((Primal Extreme IL 85+)) Drop

-Weather Vajras=100 10 tokens aka 650 soldiery + 1 unidentifited allagan tome ((came from coil first then later tower))

-Vajras=110 Sands of time from Coil, then tower, then hunts, tower/hunts think were at the same time

-Wootz Daggers=110 ((CRAFT))

-True Ice Dagger=110 ((Primal Extreme IL 95+)) Drop

-Diamond Daggers=115 ((Primal Extreme IL 95+)) Trade weapon + 5 Diamond dust which dropped from fight

-High Allagan Cleavers=115 (( Second Coil Last Boss potential Drop))

-Ironworks Magitek Daggers=120 10 tokens/ 1300 poetics + encrypted tomestone which came from coil first, then a weekly quest reward from doing all three towers

-Augmented Ironworks Magitek Daggers=130 Weapon + Carbontwine Drop from coil, then laster added as weekly quest reward to tower and also hunts

-Dreadwyrm Daggers=135 Final Coil Boss

If you notice your options are, do Primals and spam hoping they drop, or doing coil and hoping you get the allagan/encrypted tome depending on which patch you were in. Relics don't sound that bad now do they?