Job Personalization: Can I Have It?

[Izsha]

The only advantage spec gives is saving the time leveling a different job. That's it. It doesnt make any sense to add a truckload of dev time to let you do everything on a single job via spec when one of the games primary selling points and unique system is litterally: you can level multiple jobs one 1 char.

Yet in the same breath there's all this talk of copying from wow to much but wanting to dilute one of the primary differences and become even more wowish.

The logic around here makes no sense. I'm sorry you guys wanted drk to be a dps and nin to be a tank like xi. They arent. Reinventing the entire game (when history has repeatedly shown it to be a downgrade) to indulge these little things isn't worth it.

[Saggo]

Reinventing the entire game (when history has repeatedly shown it to be a downgrade)

That actually helped XIV, so...

[Izsha]

That actually helped XIV, so...

Yeah and look at one of the features that was in that steaming pile of failing mmo that they CUT OUT to turn the ship around into the success story it is today.

The exact type of stuff this thread is trying to bring back.

/drops mic.

Edit:
/runs back and pics up mic again.

When I said reinventing the game and it failing, I mean adding in the systems under discussion and those systems historically failing. Not that changing the game itself always fail. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

[LandricFrey]

Yeah and look at one of the features that was in that steaming pile of failing mmo that they CUT OUT to turn the ship around into the success story it is today.

The exact type of stuff this thread is trying to bring back.

/drops mic.

*hands back mic* I think you need this back.

FF14 was a complete trainwreak from top to bottom with only exception being graphics, which most people couldn't fully enjoy on their pc's anyway. Blaming one game system for the fall of 1.0 is just ludicrous.

[CGMidlander]

*hands back mic* I think you need this back.

FF14 was a complete trainwreak from top to bottom with only exception being graphics, which most people couldn't fully enjoy on their pc's anyway. Blaming one game system for the fall of 1.0 is just ludicrous.

Yeah

This video sums up a lot of the problems of the original FFXIV
http://www.gametrailers.com/reviews/...asy-xiv-review

And that's not including the ridiculously bad performance on most PCs of the time you already mentioned.

[Izsha]

*hands back mic* I think you need this back.

FF14 was a complete trainwreak from top to bottom with only exception being graphics, which most people couldn't fully enjoy on their pc's anyway. Blaming one game system for the fall of 1.0 is just ludicrous.

It was sarcasm. I've said no less than 3 times in this very thread that job balance or customization or whatever other single thing doesn't sink games by themselves. I played ffxi for 9 frigging years and it was one of the worst offenders of balance issues.

Just because the ac breaks in a car doesn't mean the car is crap, and I may not sell it just because the ac is broke. But that doesn't make it ok to stop putting ac in cars.

These customization systems under discussion have a history of failing. They don't singlehandedly sink games. But that doesn't make them a good idea. They are still a detractors to gamer experience because of the balance and other side effects that have been PROVEN to come woth these systems.

There's is a solid track record of negative effects of these systems. Plugging ears singing lala want make these same systems somehow not have negative effects if implemented here. Nothing suggested hasn't been tried (and flopped) in the past so why should the doubters (who have years of failed attempts bcking up their opinions) yield to the proponents who have provided no examples or reasons why this time would be different other than their say so? There is no evidence to support you ideas, yet mountains to support the doubters of these systems. We've been burned before. Why should we put our hand back on the stove? Because you say so? No thanks.

[LandricFrey]

/busts out mic once more.

That's amazing to me. You've played the same game for 9 years and it had a job customization system in it. Not saying that's why you stayed, you've made it clear that you don't like it, but just wow. That's some loyalty.

And I do apologize for not recognizing you from your previous posts here, it's hard to remember all of the people who've said they loathe this game system. From the "likes" of my original post compared to that of the first post against my proposal tell me the forum community is pretty evenly split. Obviously in that situation, SE would go the easiest path of changing nothing(like they'd ever make such a large change based on a forum post anyway). Who knows, maybe in 4.0 we'll all be ready for it again, or maybe SE will make every class completely the same, all abilities the same, just with different names, so they can make sure the game will be perfectly balanced.

/gently drops mic on a fluffy pillow

[Izsha]

That's amazing to me. You've played the same game for 9 years and it had a job customization system in it. Not saying that's why you stayed, you've made it clear that you don't like it, but just wow. That's some loyalty.

And I do apologize for not recognizing you from your previous posts here, it's hard to remember all of the people who've said they loathe this game system. From the "likes" of my original post compared to that of the first post against my proposal tell me the forum community is pretty evenly split. Obviously in that situation, SE would go the easiest path of changing nothing(like they'd ever make such a large change based on a forum post anyway). Who knows, maybe in 4.0 we'll all be ready for it again, or maybe SE will make every class completely the same, all abilities the same, just with different names, so they can make sure the game will be perfectly balanced.

/gently drops mic on a fluffy pillow

There were lots of things I loved about xi. Fighting tooth and nail to justify my reason to exist in group play was not one of them (I played thief and dragoon which were generally in the bad tier for the majority of the games lifespan). I don't wish that kind of discrimination based purely on the class you play on anyone. You guys remember the no melee allowed, bard only dps and pld only tank groups after 2.0? That, but far worse ad extending for years, not months and ultimately still never fixed.

The reason I don't see the value in a spec system in 14 is because of the armory system. In a 1 char 1 job game like qow, there is a serious advantage to being able to vary the playstyle of a single class. You're stuck with it. If I could only be a war on this char, and to play a dps I had to make an alt, do MSQ again, and all that crap, I'd be much more inclined to have a dps spec on war instead. But as that isn't the case, I feel it's really just a duplication of the armory system we already have. Sure you have to level it up, but that's nothing compared to a 1 class 1 char design. That's why it works in wow, but would be just unnecessary system duplication here. It kinda undermines the whole purpose of the armory system. It's just aesthetic at that point. "I wanna melee like a drg but look like a drk doing it with drk dps spec!" Or, you could just plau one of the 3 melees we already have when you get a hankering for some hurtin.

Trees and customization stuff generally has wide ranging balance issues and that's no fun for anyone but the flavor of th month job/combination. Specs aren't nearly as hard to balance (they are static like a new job not hundreds of olayer chosen combinations to worry about) and have a valuable place in 1 char 1 class games so you can change it up occasionally without starting from scratch. But the armory system already fills that purpose here. Why have 2 systems to do the same thing? Sounds like a lotta work for for nothing.

Specs: change more easily. No real 'cost'. It's convenient

Armory: more work, but also FAR more options and varying play available. Sure you can't play a melee dps drk flipping a switch. But for some effort you can play a melee, or a bard, or even a healer! Or nuke stuff woth black.magic. it's far more flexible than the 2 or 3 options specs afford at the cost of more effort. That's fair tradeoff to me. I never have to redo all starting over char junk to do something different.

Tldr: specs serve the same function as armory system. It's redundant.

[Saggo]

/runs back and pics up mic again.

When I said reinventing the game and it failing, I mean adding in the systems under discussion and those systems historically failing. Not that changing the game itself always fail. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

I think you're being too loose with the term "reinvent" when for the most part this is just adding subsystems, but it wasn't a big deal, so I didn't make that big of a deal about it.

Yeah, even Blizzard seems to think skill trees are either a failed system or dated for the times, seeing as they axed the system in favor of set skill lists like FFXIV. What they didn't axe was the dual-spec system, which became a huge highlight of their game. It's a personal favorite of mine and a solution I think would neatly solve player variation vs the "illusion of choice". Obviously SE disagrees with me, since they tried a very similar system with ACN, SMN, and SCH and all but outright called it a failure. But it is a proven and successful system, with true choice. And the EXP requirement for leveling a new job is a pretty huge deal.

As for the time it takes to design, develop, balance, and implement, it's their job. They obviously have time to work on new content, the only difference is if what one of us thinks is important vs what SE thinks is important.

Don't drop mics, those things are expensive.

[Sandpark]

I wouldn't like dual specs because that would probably mean less jobs. Less jobs/classes equal less unique story. Look at Swtor, it's known to have really good class stories. They let you spec between Tank, Heal, DPS but no different stories to go along with that. They only have 4 classes in two factions which are variations of the same class.

I think I would prefer unique story and jobs/classes, especially in FF which has a butt load of possible jobs. Would like some horizontal progression on classes though. If they don't do that then classes should be omitted. While balance is needed in both open world and dungeons. Content that is made open world can be tuned towards personal progression and be less demanding of balance if large static groups are not what this content is based around. Public events would be fine and dandy.

An open world with horizontal type progression is why games like Elder Scrolls, Dark Souls, etc are so popular. You can label them single player games. But there can be single/duo player content existing along side your standard raid mmo progression.