This is absolutely ridiculous (DPS CHECK RANT)

[Assirra]

Someone said that if a group is failing because one person then group should get rid of that one person, well news to you, in a group the fault of a failure is NOT on the shoulder of one person, only, is a group work and as such is the failure of all, be it by a small contribution to that failure or a big contribution, might want to think of this before going to try and demand something just to be able to point fingers (not aiming at you as you Whiteroom)

Mei

What kind of horror logic is that?
If Player A does 1000dps and Player B does 400 and the result is a wipe because not enough DPS it is the groups fault and not Player B who drags everyone down?
What you are saying it is fine if Player B gets carried but if the group saids anything it is bad.
That is such horrible logic and this needs to stop.

[Dement]

What kind of horror logic is that?
If Player A does 1000dps and Player B does 400 and the result is a wipe because not enough DPS it is the groups fault and not Player B who drags everyone down?
What you are saying it is fine if Player B gets carried but if the group saids anything it is bad.
That is such horrible logic and this needs to stop.

Clearly Player A needs to get good and up their DPS to the impossible standard of 1600 so that the whole group isn't filled with Bads-by-Association.

[PotatoWafflez]

I think the Dummies are fine and all, but what they don’t teach you is what kind of damage you do during actual combat. The Dummy is only a stationary object that takes punches, but doesn’t deal any in return.

I would love to have means of measuring your performance during actual combat. I never thought i’d say it, but… Something like Maat in FFXI or the WoW Proving grounds. When i was still playing FFXI (around 2004 where the level cap was 75), defeating Maat was required to raise the level Cap from 70 to 75. Back then, Maat was the bane of my existence and it nearly made me quite FFXI back then.

Then there was the Proving Grounds in WoW. You need to prove your worth and get a Silver rating, before you could use the dungeon finder to queue up for the Heroic dungeons if you were not in a premade group.

While both games had their own way to measure your skills, both of them prevented you to use a feature, unless you defeated the trail or get a certain rating upon completion.

But, i’d rather would like to see it implemented as an optional feature, where the trail tests me on several aspects of an encounter, based on the role i play. For instance: Hate generation, DPS, Healing, damage taken, the amount of mechanics i performed, the amount of (avoidable) mechanics i’ve missed, etc. Afterwards it would give me a rating on each individual category ranging from D (failed) to S (perfect) / S+ (Exceptional).

They could implement it like a “Challenge”-mode within the Duty Finder settings for existing content like Primals, Raids, Dungeons or even Guildhests. It would still be the same difficulty you’ve queued up for, but at the end you would get a summary of your performance within the duty.

On top of that, introduce a one-on-one trail like Maat that you can do solo, which will give you a summary of your performance if you’ve selected the “Challenge”-mode option in the Duty Finder Settings.

I would get behind these concepts you and others have mentioned in this thread if they rewarded you with the title of "Got Gud at <Insert Class here>" because then we can safely say that Yoshi-P thinks we are playing to the level we should be so there can be no arguments!

[Nadirah]

Wow impressive run that broke two misconceptions I had. 1) they did a 4-4 split for phase one destroying it in two goes 2) they missed a dk once in phase 3 but still managed to clear. I was under the impression that missing dk even once in phase 3 was an automatic fail. Could've sworn ive failed before with a single miss. Thanks for the link! I might try out those tactics when I go back to help ppl clear but I'm pretty sure they'll all say "no you have to kill in one go!"

Group I killed it with did it in two goes.

Turned out we had a couple people ignoring the " don't pop longer CDs" bit so weds have issues with snakes. Dragging the fight out so they'd be up again for the snakes did it, but barely. They smartened up magically and followed a kill order on the last phase adds so it was okay.

If your groups dps is low but you have good coordination you should be OK.

[scarebearz]

I agree that the game needs a personal dps meter. I do however think that a dps check is a skill check. Being able to perform your rotation while doing mechanics is very important. Tactics aren't going to save you from an enrage timer and of you can't do enough dps on Faust savage you might as well forget about trying to beat the oppressors enrage timer. Good melee/casters should be able to pull over 1100+ at ilvl 180 and a 190 weapon.

Your missing my point ^^

Once people over-gear, these fights will be a walk in the park, but if the content had more actual mechanics than dps-checks, then even with better gear people would still have to know and perform the mechanics.

Like personally my dps is fine (on a3s atm), but I know people who can dodge and deal with mechanics very well, but because they (and their static) do a bit less dps they are stuck atm.

Titan HM for example was great in this regard.

[Waliel]

Then there was the Proving Grounds in WoW. You need to prove your worth and get a Silver rating, before you could use the dungeon finder to queue up for the Heroic dungeons if you were not in a premade group.

Too bad the silver rating in WoW was too easy to get, and the heroic runs were still filled with exactly the same people you run into here. Stackable +50% damage for 30 seconds buffs carried you through the thing, if you didn't know how to play.

[SonTensei]

That still doesn't excuse the sub 500 DPS I see people doing, at ilvl 175+ mind you.

how are people supposed to know what the dps is if there is no in game parsing tool.
what about the ps4 players? they cant even check.
the OPs point about adding dps checks to fights is correct.. they should go on infinate loop till you win as long as you learn the mechanics.

[UBERHAXED]

how are people supposed to know what the dps is if there is no in game parsing tool.
what about the ps4 players? they cant even check.
the OPs point about adding dps checks to fights is correct.. they should go on infinate loop till you win as long as you learn the mechanics.

You don't need a tool to learn how to count. Did they try reading the skills? The potencies aren't hidden or something. You can map out a dps rotation perfectly on paper, then adjust it to how how bad you play when having to move between positionals under lower GCD (which is what it is really, nothing wrong with the truth). If it's not the best on paper, then it's not the best in practice. Otherwise you're doing something wrong on paper.

On an unrelated note, parsers won't help. Did a roulette last night with a tank friend (I was sch) and had 180+ smn and drg. I thought to myself, this should be quick since we have best melee AOE dps and best AOE caster dps. Ended up being the longest run ever. I asked the dragoon why he never used doomspike and he said "I have a better skill, duh. Doomspike is only 160. How is 160>200? Lol.". I asked the summoner why he never used bane (!!!) or shadow flare and he just kept silent. He started using bane but never bothered with shadow flare. I even asked him throughout the dungeon to use it. He didn't even use it on trashpulls, never mind bosses. And the best part: I didn't need a parser to tell me how bad they were doing. I just looked at the screen after realizing that every pull took 5-6 minutes.

Unfortunately, even if you tell a person exactly what to do, you can't fix stupid. Can't expect people with the tools themselves to fix it when that requires effort, whereas spoon feeding information doesn't work. BTW, this is exactly how the conversation went with the dragoon:

Me: Why don't you use doomspike? It will hit 7 targets instead of one do it's more damage.
Dragoon: I have a better skill, duh. Doomspike is only 160. How is 160>200? Lol.
Me: Doomspike is on GCD.
Dragoon: I don't think you know how to count. 200>160 dude.
Me: Might as well only use dragonfire dive then since 300>200.
Dragoon: That's a 2 minute CD, Geirshogul is 10 seconds.
Me: And doomspike is less than 2.5 seconds.
Dragoon: I think you're an idiot.
Me: (no comment after that)

[Risvertasashi]

how are people supposed to know what the dps is if there is no in game parsing tool.
what about the ps4 players? they cant even check.
the OPs point about adding dps checks to fights is correct.. they should go on infinate loop till you win as long as you learn the mechanics.

You don't need a tool to learn how to count. Did they try reading the skills? The potencies aren't hidden or something.

Pretty much. You can do damn good dps just reading the tool tips.

Parsing only really verifies your performance, or helps you really fine tune to squeeze out every last digit.

That said, SE has been showing time and again that they love hard DPS checks. So there really needs to be a way to highlight that a person isn't carrying their weight on this.

[CGMidlander]

how are people supposed to know what the dps is if there is no in game parsing tool.
what about the ps4 players? they cant even check.

Heaven forbid we have friends who can help with stuff like that.
I bet no console player has ever asked a PC player in one of their LSes, FC, or static for feedback.

Nope. It has certainly never happened to me before. No sir.

the OPs point about adding dps checks to fights is correct.. they should go on infinate loop till you win as long as you learn the mechanics.

There would be no reason to do anything but stack tanks/healers if there was no reason to kill things within a certain time limit.