Something need to be done about BAD DPS.

[Kezy_Kaatapoh]

Tbh the first step to get better on PS4 is to get a PC. Then getting a parser.

Ok, sorry, but I had to say it. I know, I am a d**k.

I don't want to get into a console vs PC argument (You lose nothing whatsoever playing on console), but all I'll say is that I perform pretty damn well if the numbers I get from my friends are accurate. I also know plenty of other people who would prove that sentiment so remarkably wrong. So I strongly disagree

[Teryaani]

That is not irrational, is already happening in dungeons, where a DPS who is not supposedly doing enough good according ot others is simply kicked out, when in fact as it has been said above, was doing more then the others, especialyl the tank that took all the aoes in the face expecting the Heals to heal him and when heal ran out of mana because well there is only so much you can do complained he died for ...lack of heals....so saying is irrational is wrong, if there is a parser it would be used and abused just about like the kick option is used and abused.

My wife and I had this happen in fractal. In the last fight the tank kept dragging the boss onto us to "help kill the adds" when the DRG and I were clearing the alarums fast. Doing so caused us to eat more damage and paralysis debuffs, causing the healer to go OOM and that combined with his inability to use a single defensive cooldown caused us to wipe.

His solution? Kick the healer obviously. So yeah, abuse is already there.

A parser on the dummy would be great, a parser in the game is a double edged sword. On one hand you could see when someone was just auto-attacking. On the other you could have a situation where the DF group's expectations are overdone for the content.

I play in a Japanese data center and when I get in a J party, it's normal for people to say "初見です！" if they are new, and the party asks if they need any help with the mechanics, stuff like that.

But when I get in an E party... there is a notice that someone is new and no one says anything. In one party, a dragoon obviously messed up every single thing. Another E player and I, when we saw the dragoon was E, literally asked "are you new? do you need pointers?". The other E player (not the dragoon), then proceeded to detail the mechanics of the fight. It was just a straight up instruction, no sarcasm or anything. The dragoon didn't reply once, didn't follow the instructions, and caused another wipe. We asked again if he needed anything explained... and then this is where it gets funny. Yet another E player said "this is why I hate E parties you're a bunch of elitists".

I'm starting to wonder if there isn't a problem of newer players not looking at the chat log. I've seen the same behavior happening more often recently in DF groups.

[Gilraen]

The problem with this negative outlook on parsers is based purely on anecdotal evidence.

Up until earlier this month I'd fall into such a statement. But such changed in a rather arduous Fractal run. Mobs would occasionally run rampant, bosses took longer than usual until the last boss. After the first wipe the tank immediately started complaining about our output, even going so far as to claim to be the top DPS of the fight. And then they plastered everyone's DPS numbers, in party chat, to 'illustrate' their point. Wiped a second time, complained even more, posted everyone's numbers again and started a /voteabandon. Vote failed, they left, new tank dropped in and we sailed through the fight like nothing was wrong. While I do think parsers, as a personal metric, might have merits it's this kind of behavior I can't condone and should not be tolerated in the slightest.

[Anapingofness]

Official ingame parser or even only a parser that would be tied to dummy would be a nice start...

An in game parser that only you could see, alright.
An in game parser that others could see, no thanks. It will do more harm than good. I hope Yoshida stays firm in his decision to keep parsers out of this game.
Just remember, a parser isn't a magic fix for players who don't know their rotations or for people who don't care about their performance.

[Eli85]

Something needs to be done, but what is the solution? It's not so simple as you might think.

There have been MMOs with parsers, detailed instructions, and dungeon simulation. None of these solve the 'bad player' problem. I've done the guild and raid lead thing before, and even with supposed 'better and geared players' there are legions of players who are unprepared, do not do research, and just stink at the game. I really believe the issue really is cultural, and specific to North America.

Whether we like it or not, western MMO players tolerate poor play and say, "it's OK, it's a play style and you're free to embrace it." Until as a culture we shame these players more, make it clear that subpar play is not acceptable, nothing will ever change.

To be clear, I don't mean someone who does a little bit less than the top DPS and people say "lols you're bad." I'm talking about the ice mages, the dot-less and garuda-less summoners, the 'I don't need a fairy' scholars, the auto-attackers and afkers. Far too often we say, "you pay your own 15 bucks a month, you can play the game however you want." Then these people come into groups and don't understand the problem, then the players who are doing the best we can, get frustrated. So you then say, "Ok, let's find someone new," and the problem becomes these terrible players outnumber the good players way too much. It's why people run and hide into statics, as if no one else but their static exists on the servers.

Basically, nothing is going to change. We need to alter our culture way too much from coddling alternate play styles to poor play is not acceptable in any circumstances. Get into your statics and linkshells, and hope there are enough good players there so you can enjoy the content.

edit:

Just to add, I am someone that would love more widespread parsers. In a trial or raid, will it make rotation errors go away? Heavens no! But you know what it does? It lets you spot the bad player instantly. If I'm in a group and I see a DPS below tanks and healers, then I know if the player doesn't get replaced, it's nothing but wipes. Parsers saves you time and headaches.

[Teryaani]

Until as a culture we shame these players more, make it clear that subpar play is not acceptable, nothing will ever change.

Two problems:
1) the chance it will drive away subs mean that there is no way it'll fly with Square.
2) It won't work even for the players who don't leave. My inlaws played WoW with us and no amount of tutoring from us or people in instances reading them the riot act changed their behavior. There are some players who simply don't care and nothing will fix that. If politely giving advice doesn't work, walk away. All shaming will do is earn you a possible GM action.

I'm talking about the ice mages,

Yeah, hate those too. "I never run out of mana!" Yeah, but the boss never dies either.

garuda-less summoners,

HEY! I use Ifrit most of the time.

[Eli85]

Two problems:
1) the chance it will drive away subs mean that there is no way it'll fly with Square.
2) It won't work even for the players who don't leave. My inlaws played WoW with us and no amount of tutoring from us or people in instances reading them the riot act changed their behavior. There are some players who simply don't care and nothing will fix that. If politely giving advice doesn't work, walk away. All shaming will do is earn you a possible GM action.

The sub issue is most definitely tied to this problem. A developer doesn't want to lose players, but they don't want to frustrate their players either. It's why Blizzard did the tourist mode LFR. It didn't fix the bad player problem completely, but it kept some of the bads out of higher tier content.

Shaming probably wasn't the right word, too, particularly in light of MMO communities. 'Frowned upon' would be the better phrase. In other words, create a culture where failing horribly is something truly embarrassing.

Your anecdote is all too common. I've seen it a lot as well, and I can never understand it. Lacking the drive to be better, no matter what it is, is something I'll never get.

[Ayuhra]

Isn't failing horribly already truly embarrassing? If I die more than once in a dungeon I'll bomb off and eat a penalty I am burning in the ears so much (unless everyone else dies too around the same time). I remember in the Vault I once ported to the beginning of the dungeon instead of accepting a rez and the other BLM called me names and cussed at me and sighed over how terrible I was, laughing it up with the healer. I remember feeling embarrassed and angry (because the BLM was using ley lines never and consistently died within 1.5 seconds of me) and then, because it's the Vault, very, very sad.


To this day I can't handle the Vault. It makes me cry in every way a dungeon can make me cry. This is an accurate depiction of me in that dungeon:



Stuff on the ground, stuff on the ground everywhere!

Erm yes where was I going with this before I so rudely interrupted myself.

Oh, yeah.

Embarrassment only kicks in if your sense of dignity or pride has been harmed. Those folks who auto attack on Bismarck's back have no such pride so I doubt being told off will bend them much. Those of us "bad" DPS who do get embarrassed are actually trying and feeling even more embarrassed about it to the point of feeling ashamed of ourselves will probably drive a lot of us out of the game.

There needs to be some better tutorials baked into the class quests to give you a sense of your rotation. Some have that a little bit but not much. A better learning experience could lower the number of bad DPS. But not the auto-attack crowd. Nothing anyone does will stop them from doing as they do.

[SonTensei]

What a great way to ruin a game designed for casual players !!! do something about bad dps !!!! you people kill me, you think they would actually do that?

Im sure everyone is aware that the vast majority of the money SE makes every month is from CASUAL players. Why on earth would they want to alienate those people?

[Terribad]

What a great way to ruin a game designed for casual players

Casual players are not bads, please stop insulting casuals. Trying to clear a dungeon doesn't make one "hardcore".