This is absolutely ridiculous (DPS CHECK RANT)

[Zfz]

I'm pretty sure they'll all say "no you have to kill in one go!"

But if you look at the Carapace you'll notice that their first team (1T1H2DPS) already brought the Carapace down to less than 30%.

The statement that "if you can't down the Carapace in one go you don't have enough DPS" doesn't apply to them because if they didn't split, they would have finished the Carapace in one go probably even before Bismarck started to shudder. They have way more dps than required to finish the Carapace in one go. They just choose to do it in two.

With that kind of dps, they will have no problems clearing P2 and finishing P3 before the island is destroyed. And if you have that kind of dps, why not just finish it in one go? It's not like the debuff will last until P3. That's probably why finishing the Carapace in one go became the standard strategy.

In our FC's first tries on BismarckEX, I (PLD) consistently ranked 3rd in dps and even with everyone using food, we couldn't consistently finish off the Carapace in one go (results varied wildly between 1%~21%), and the times when we could, we will always wipe in P2 when the snakes still had like 30% HP.

• You don't have enough dps if you can't down the Carapace in one go.
• You can't beat BismarckEX if you can't down the Carapace in one go.

The first is probably mostly still true while the second is proven false.

[DragonSlayer45]

Bismarck Ex...Complex?! Are you kidding me? It's one of the most straightforward, simple fights in the whole game!

Yet people still fail it.

Bismarck Extreme is almost exactly the same as Hard Mode except for 3 mechanics: the stacking debuff from the back, the wind/water debuff from the snake adds, and wind weather. I have three macros for calling out the weather patterns and what people need to do. Other than saying "everything hits harder", I really do not understand how people fail at Bismarck EX and I wish those same people the best of luck in Ravana EX.

[Kerrigen]

I think there are far too many "dps check" mechanics and not enough skill/learning based mechanics.

It currently gates a lot of groups that may be tactically better than other groups with higher dps from clearing, but also once people over-gear the fights will be far too easy.

I also thinks it's crazy to have such tight dps checks and no official way for knowing your dps...

Yeah, this is starting to become an issue and to shine light on poor class 'balance' in 3.0. The everything being gear/DPS gated meta is getting a bit ridiculous and out of hand. I'm not even talking about Bismarck because it's not a big DPS check but I don't like the direction the game is going towards. Even AS1's Faust (soon to be RIP) is nothing but a DPS check with 0 mechanics, I don't think I've ever played a MMO that had the balls to do that and I'm not sure I agree with that way of designing things.

And the bolded needs to be stated every day on these forums.

[Bishop81]

Maybe they should have a build-in DPS meter but only for Extreme mode fights and non-queueable raids.

[Greyfrost]

First of all, Bismarck Extreme, yes, I got stuck on this for about a week myself, the dps check is quite crazy with the amount of people not actually playing their class right or cannot be maximized with environments in Bismarck, I hate that constant aoe, the mages probably hate them more than me (I'm a DRG).

But here's the thing OP, the next one after Bismarck, Ravana Extreme, is also a gear/dps check, and with a far greater chance to mess up and jeopardizing the whole run.

People will panic when marked, run around like headless chicken, friendly fires. fun stuffs.

A built-in dps meter on dummies might be a good idea for starters, make it an inside competition for members in your FC, even, nothing beats friendly competition for improvement.

[Zfz]

A built-in dps meter on dummies might be a good idea for starters, make it an inside competition for members in your FC, even, nothing beats friendly competition for improvement.

There was a suggestion on the JP side to increase the dummy's HP or to have the dummy display how many times it had been killed during that combat session. A community rep replied to say that they will look into the possibility of that.

Even that would be a giant improvement. Sometimes people really need to see with their own eyes how badly they are performing. ("I thought I was doing well but I only killed the dummy 10 times while he killed it 22 times using worse gear!")

There's little we could do about people who can't process their rotation and encounter mechanics at the same time, but at the very least we could motivate them to learn better rotations.

[fireslash]

do a dummy test

[Yukiko]

Square Enix failed, thats it. No more, no less!
Parsers are forbidden because players will exclude others or even whole jobs from content. That aside players will bash on the weak who dont do enough 'numbers'. Square Enix is trying to play the good one with helping the poor. So far so good, but: We do not have any chance to progress in damage dealing because dummy tests dont have anything build in to check it. We have to use 3rd party tools if we like to progress in our damage output.

The other thing is: Square Enix continues to add instant death mechanics, fall off platform mechanics and very tight damage checks! They are designing a game based on players reaction skills. Adding an aweful UI, camera movements or targeting summs it up. Its like we play the game blindfolded and have to hope we will pass damage checks!

Parsers are not the core of the problem, they are just a first aid. The core is static programming with fixed dps checks whether or not playing with the right job combinations or group levels...

[CGMidlander]

BIS EX is so much more than a cookie cutter instruction and is very often overlooked on its complexity.

Lolwut?

-In general, kill adds and dodge stuff.
------
1
-Activate shield before Bismarck hits island a second time (this is optional, unless your DPS is extremely bad and you need the extra island durability)
-Hop on Bismarck to hurt the carapace.
--------
2
-Tank the two snakes away from each other.
-Don't hit/tank the add with the same color as the debuff you get.
--------
3
-If weather is yellow, stand in middle for the knock back and then for the hurricane. If weather is purple, spread out slightly and don't kill bubbles. If weather is neither, stay away from middle.
-Don't hop on Bismarck to hurt the corona until your debuff stacks fall off.

...that's about it.

[Radacci]

that's why it pisses me off, when ppl set ilv180 requirement for alexander...and then we proceed to wipe - ilv doesn't mean ANYTHING, if ppl suck, which 90% of players do. It has ilv170 req, which is more than enough, if ppl know what they are doing - if they don't, it won't matter if they got ilv 210, they'll still die.
it's also why i decided to not bother with savage, at all - i know PF groups wont be able to clear it until we get ilv250 stuff, handed out to us for almost free.
i routinely out-dps ppl that are 10-15ilv higher than me, and it surprises me when ppl out-dps me (happens like once/month) that's how shitty PF ppl, are.
even most static groups, suck.
It's not the DPS checks, that is the problem, they are are usually not very strict - it's just that most players are so bad, and they can easily get carried to end-game content, then they think they are good enough to clear it.
As a DD, the least you should do, is do some research, and learn a good rotation, and stop holding the entire party back.

There was a suggestion on the JP side to increase the dummy's HP or to have the dummy display how many times it had been killed during that combat session. A community rep replied to say that they will look into the possibility of that.

Even that would be a giant improvement. Sometimes people really need to see with their own eyes how badly they are performing. ("I thought I was doing well but I only killed the dummy 10 times while he killed it 22 times using worse gear!")

There's little we could do about people who can't process their rotation and encounter mechanics at the same time, but at the very least we could motivate them to learn better rotations.

they should give dummies, more hp, and if you don't kill it quickly enough, it kills you. that aught to drive home the fact, how bad your DPS is. then you can't join Primal Fights/raids, until you kill the dummy - sort of like a drivers test, for end-game content.
Or a trial for each job, where as a DD, you must kill a boss before it enrage.
healers need to keep some NPCs, healed. (kind of like Estinien at Nidhogg)
tanks need to maintain aggro, or some squishy NPCs die, and you fail.