PLD dps needs to be buffed, current dps a joke

[rawker]

The thing is, if the damage penalty from Shield Oath is improved, Fight or Flight needs to be lowered down to compensate and that will hurt Sword Oath.

[SirTaint]

The thing is, if the damage penalty from Shield Oath is improved, Fight or Flight needs to be lowered down to compensate and that will hurt Sword Oath.

Why?

Darkside and Maim are perma buffs. If anything PLD should have an equivalent, like every shield block gives us a 5 seconds 15% damage increase.

DRK has Darkside,Darkarts and Blood Weapon (not to meantion a 500pot single GCD and magic to help with TP regen)
WAR has Deliverance,Maim,Berserk,Inner release and Equilibrium (they can also stance dance on the fly for increased security or DPS)
PLD has FoF and Sword Oath

[Fue]

Just make SwO a trait and add a tp restore skill to its place

[Disc]

As a PLD who recently cleared A1 Savage, I can definitely say this is true. In magic-heavy fights PLD loses its defensive advantages over DRK/WAR

You weren't paying attention to the incoming damage then. Most of the damage comes from auto-attacks, which can hit for as much damage as Royal Fount. Halone's STR down allows PLD to basically have a constant -10% damage taken.(additional ~5% for shield/parry over DRK) It becomes more equal if PLD can forego Halone for Royal Authority, but then their DPS takes a massive jump.

DRKs main advantages in A1S are increased enmity generation & Shadow Wall during a Royal Fount every 3 minutes while out of Grit. Hypercompressed Plasma for the most part only matters whether you survive or not, but will also hit DRK for 10% more. Grit+Shadowskin+DA+Dark Mind = 44.8% damage taken, Rampart + Sentinel = 38.4% damage taken, Hallowed Ground makes the second Plasma a non-issue. The lack of need for enmity combos early on allows them to focus DPS the first phase, which is where DPS matters most.

Darkside and Maim are perma buffs. If anything PLD should have an equivalent, like every shield block gives us a 5 seconds 15% damage increase.

DRK has Darkside,Darkarts and Blood Weapon (not to meantion a 500pot single GCD and magic to help with TP regen)
WAR has Deliverance,Maim,Berserk,Inner release and Equilibrium (they can also stance dance on the fly for increased security or DPS)
PLD has FoF and Sword Oath

DRK potencies are naturally very low without Darkside and Dark Arts to boost them. Bloodweapon, unlike FoF, does nothing for oGCDs. Your proposed buffs would make PLDs already naturally high potency abilities hands down better DPS than both DRK & WAR. In addition to taking less overall damage, carrying a ton of support abilities, and the groundbreaking Hallowed skill.

[Faytte]

DRK potencies are naturally very low without Darkside and Dark Arts to boost them.

Are you...absolutely crazy?

Dark have the highest core potencies out of all tanks. Have you looked at the potencies of other tanks?

Honestly? I do not even know how to take this post seriously after reading this. Scourge vs Fracture? Any of your combos vs ANY combos of other classes?

Royal Authority? 690 total potency.
Delirium--which includes mana restore and a debuff? 680. You are '10' potency behind a combo which includes an attack that does -nothing- but damage. Considering most DRK are also doing a DA+ Soul Eater once every 3 or so combos.

Yeah your potencies being low....lol.

[Phoenicia]

Are you...absolutely crazy?

Dark have the highest core potencies out of all tanks. Have you looked at the potencies of other tanks?

Honestly? I do not even know how to take this post seriously after reading this. Scourge vs Fracture? Any of your combos vs ANY combos of other classes?

Royal Authority? 690 total potency.
Delirium--which includes mana restore and a debuff? 680. You are '10' potency behind a combo which includes an attack that does -nothing- but damage. Considering most DRK are also doing a DA+ Soul Eater once every 3 or so combos.

Yeah your potencies being low....lol.

A small correction: DRK has the highest core potencies out of all classes.

[SirTaint]

DRK potencies are naturally very low without Darkside and Dark Arts to boost them. Bloodweapon, unlike FoF, does nothing for oGCDs. Your proposed buffs would make PLDs already naturally high potency abilities hands down better DPS than both DRK & WAR. In addition to taking less overall damage, carrying a ton of support abilities, and the groundbreaking Hallowed skill.

Wat....

And the problem is ShOs penalty and the lack of a way to circumvent it.

WAR can negate the penalty via IB/Unchained and gets back to 95% via Maim. If you are in deliverance you still get the increased damage from Maim plus all the other goodies.
DRK can negate with darkside (-20 +15) and then stack DA,Blood weapon, along with most potent core rotation. DRK also have 4 oGCDs to weave.

[Disc]

Without dark arts/Darkside
Hard Slash – 150
Spinning Slash – 220
Syphon Strike – 250
Power Slash – 300
Delirium – 280
Souleater - 260

Combos
Hard+Spin+Power = 670
Hard+Syphon+Delirium = 680
Hard+Syphon+souleater=660

PLD Combos
Fast+Savage+Halone = 610
Fast+Savage+Royal Authority = 690
Fast+Riot+Goring = 600((840 actual)+600/minute from DoT)

DRK oGCD
Carve & Spit – 100/minute
Scourge – 500(1000/minute)
Salted Earth – 525(700/minute)
Plunge – 200(400/minute)
Low Blow – 100(200+/minute)
Total DRK oGCD: 2400/minute+- low blow

PLD oGCD
Spirits Within – 600/minute
Circle of Scorn = 250/minute
Sword Oath – 50/auto(1442/minute)
Total PLD oGCD: 900(2342 counting bonus from autos)

Darkside/Dark Arts make up for lower natural potency & lack of Fight or Flight. PLD is trailing behind in the end after counting all buffs, but the difference is not nearly as significant as you would have people believe.

Are you...absolutely crazy?

Dark have the highest core potencies out of all tanks. Have you looked at the potencies of other tanks?

Honestly? I do not even know how to take this post seriously after reading this. Scourge vs Fracture? Any of your combos vs ANY combos of other classes?

Royal Authority? 690 total potency.
Delirium--which includes mana restore and a debuff? 680. You are '10' potency behind a combo which includes an attack that does -nothing- but damage. Considering most DRK are also doing a DA+ Soul Eater once every 3 or so combos.

Yeah your potencies being low....lol.

Delirium does not restore MP, Syphon does. It also results in lower overall DPS than Royal Authority/Goring Blade combos, which is what you are complaining about.

Wat....

And the problem is ShOs penalty and the lack of a way to circumvent it.

WAR can negate the penalty via IB/Unchained and gets back to 95% via Maim. If you are in deliverance you still get the increased damage from Maim plus all the other goodies.
DRK can negate with darkside (-20 +15) and then stack DA,Blood weapon, along with most potent core rotation. DRK also have 4 oGCDs to weave.

Grit is a 23% DPS loss from what a DRK would be doing without it. You don't pretend Darkside is limited to Grit stance to fluff numbers. (.8*1.15 = .92) to (1.15 - .92 = .23)

[Dante_V]

I don't think he was fluffing numbers. He wasn't talking about the dps loss from grit, he was talking about the ability to gain back 15% of the loss with darkside.

[Giantbane]

Grit is a 23% DPS loss from what a DRK would be doing without it. You don't pretend Darkside is limited to Grit stance to fluff numbers. (.8*1.15 = .92) to (1.15 - .92 = .23)

So what you're saying is that if you use Grit and Darkside together, then Grit directly reduces your damage by 23% of the DPS you would do if you didn't use darkside at all. Which is a silly way to look at it.

Grit just costs you 20% of the damage you were doing when you turn it on.

Well, it also means no blood weapon, but I don't feel like trying to calculate the direct contribution of Blood Weapon because you have to figure in how the MP is going to translate to damage as a % of your total potency without the mp. It's not as much as SwO.

Anyhow, I think the biggest complaint is that PLD loses SwO damage AND the damage penalty of ShO when swapping SwO > ShO, which is pretty hefty. DRK loses Blood Weapon and Grit. Since SwO accounts for more of a PLD's OT damage than Blood Weapon does to the DRK, the PLD is going to lose more DPS than the DRK will when swapping from DPS stance > Tank stance. Since the PLD already has lower OT damage, they're even worse off when in ShO.