Do Warriors have any single disadvantage?

[Ryaz]

PLD already has a lot more support than the other 2 tanks. Cover, Divine veil, clemency, stoneskin.

Even if you gave PLD additional support like tp/mp regen, you run into a similar scenario. If PLD is viable at tp/mp regen + fills the tanking role, what prevents BRDs/MCHs spots from being replaced by PLD?

Never said to give them tp/mp regen. MCH/BRD are already the lowest dps and removing the one needed thing they bring to the raid would make them obsolete, but I'm sure there's a lot of different buffs PLD could provide. Hell, give them the ability to "pierce" enemies with their sword tip, decreasing damage resistance vs piercing weapons to compliment Drg like War/Nin. MCH and BRD would really appreciate another way to get the damage increase without having having to rely on Drg alone. Though obviously, this wouldn't help the PLD himself and wouldn't be as big a bonus.

Basically, when it comes to the holy trinity, once healing and tanking are both viable, the only really way to continue to benefit the party is increased dps or more support abilities that increase dps. As I said, it's a flaw in the system that no one has really been able to address. Except maybe GW2 and they did that by throwing the entire Trinity away.

[Seku]

that by throwing the entire Trinity away.

It's because the concept of a trinity is a failed concept in this game due to the lack of damage taken by tanks and the amount healers can recover in general. The fact that Tanks are running as MT outside of their Tanking stance other than to gain initial hate is proof enough.

[Reynhart]

It's because the concept of a trinity is a failed concept in this game due to the lack of damage taken by tanks and the amount healers can recover in general.

As long as only tanks can tank and healers can heal, the trinity works.

Even in tank stance, tanks have a lot more mitigation and HP than DPS.

[Carstien]

Lustrate is a now 600 potency heal, and essential dignity is a 400 potency heal. There are no "X% of target HP" heals except Benediction now, which means these abilities work with Defiance and Convalescence now.

No, they don't. With the 25% of max HP thing they were equal to paladins when taking a lustrate. Lustrate is now an ability with potency. Ability, not spell.

Abilities are not affected by the defiance or convalescence bonus, meaning warriors get none of the defiance benefit from them. Paladins and dark knights still have their flat 20% mitigation while Warrior has only the enhanced HP which equates to half of their tank stance. That tank stance is already less effective than shield oath and grit without negating the 20% healing buff.

So lustrate is worse on a Warrior now.

[Tila]

It's because the concept of a trinity is a failed concept in this game due to the lack of damage taken by tanks and the amount healers can recover in general. The fact that Tanks are running as MT outside of their Tanking stance other than to gain initial hate is proof enough.

Are you honestly taking the tendency to be out of tank stance for dungeon runs as proof of the trinity being a poor thing? The trinity is not a failed concept, any alternative tends to suck. The only glaring issue right now is that WAR is geared towards OTing which makes them a must have for raiding. The argument that this is a poor thing is flawed in and of itself because for progression raiding there are many must have classes because most of them bring something unique that you'll want for certain fights. There's no real way of fixing this other than lowering WAR damage, but do that and people won't want WAR at all because they are a poorer MT choice for myriad reasons. I see nothing wrong with a system where certain tanks are wanted for certain material, other roles have had to deal with this all throughout ARR, and its one of the things that people like about the FFXIV system: classes are unique.

If you want a MT, run a PLD or DRK.

If you want to OT, run a WAR

If you want both, roll a 2 or more and enjoy that the majority of their gear is shared.

[Launched]

• Defiance/Deliverance are on a 10s cooldown
• Defiance doesn't give its mitigation instantly
• WARs receive slightly less healing from all spells, and significantly less healing from all abilities
• IB is the cooldown with the tightest timing, and it's also WAR's main mitigation
• In Deliverance, WAR doesn't have access to its best mitigation tool
• WAR doesn't have any big advantage against either physical or magical damage

These threads are honestly ridiculous. Each tank has their advantages and disadvantages. PLDs just seem mad that they're not guaranteed a MT spot any more. They do good enough DPS compared to the other tanks (high 800s vs ~950 on WAR) and, as all PLDs like to say, have the best overall mitigation. Just because it's not NEEDED in a fight doesn't make it useless. You can't have mitigation like Sentinel and Hallowed and also do huge DPS. Live with your disadvantage, the majority of people here aren't hardcore raiders (me included) and that extra tiny bit of DPS won't mean anything next week when everyone gets their weapon.

If you're in a group where people are threatening to kick you because you're a PLD, you really should reconsider if you actually want to play with them.

[Carstien]

I'd forgotten about the cleave.
No, Prey isn't a buster in A1N. It is in A1S, tho, iiuc (never tried it). Still, my point stands - PLD CDs aren't completely worthless in A1-A3, and in fact should be quite valuable in A3 because his cleave is also his "buster".



--Erim Nelhah

Prey is not a tank buster in A1N OR A1S. Prey is prey, 6 missiles will hit the target. Target is random. It's also physical, not magical. His cleave 'royal fount' is a pathetic 5 k unmitigated hit. Not a tank buster.

A1N has no tank buster, A1S has hypercompressed plasma. It is a magical attack dealing around 25k unmitigated damage on the player with the highest threat. The tank. Please don't mistake a simple damage mechanic for an actual buster of tanks.

[nyttyn]

In a world where Warriors get Storm's Path, the highest DPS by a significant margin over DRK and a HUGE margin over PLD, where they have an even huger margin over the other two tanks in dungeons without ninjas, and entirely comparable mitigation that allows them to tank all fights, why wouldn't they be the best tank by a huge margin?

They literally have their cake, eat it too, and get a indespensible debuff on top of that. In fact, people are even trying to spin wariror's disadvantages (Such as the fact it's the ONLY tank that can swap between stances oGCD) as disadvantages which boggles my damn mind.

[pandabearcat]

If you want both, roll a 2 or more and enjoy that the majority of their gear is sharednone of the gear is shared, and you spent tens of hours doing extra grind for a class you may not want to play.

I would not mind if esoterics was not AF2.

Also, if WAR wasn't a better MT than the other two as well, simply though that stacking classes = lower LB and that WAR is such a good OT.

There is no reason not to bring a WAR mt if you want.

[Ryaz]

It's because the concept of a trinity is a failed concept in this game due to the lack of damage taken by tanks and the amount healers can recover in general. The fact that Tanks are running as MT outside of their Tanking stance other than to gain initial hate is proof enough.

I don't think it's a failed concept. The system just has its flaws. All systems do. The tricky thing for developers is finding out how to make each job unique, but still "equal" without homogenizing everything. Unfortunately, it's proven difficult to do in some cases. Just look at MCH and BRD, they're pretty much interchangeable and play very similar.