Do Warriors have any single disadvantage?

[Tila]

I think one major issue is that its hard to make these classes viable for multiple roles without making them overly homogenized. Simply put, if you want to be a career tank, you'll need one of each. That may be one major reason that aside from AF and weapon, the tanks share all the same armor.

And if you wanted fair discussion, you shouldn't put a little quip at the end about how warrior is easier than the other classes. Its not like Paladins or DRK who know what they're doing have trouble with resource management, just like skilled Warriors have little difficulty with their stance dancing and stack management. By adding that little bit at the end you're making yourself seem even more biased and a tad untrustworthy on the subject. How hard a class is is entirely irrelevant to discussing their advantages and disadvantages. It just makes the thread about warrior bashing rather than a thread about real discussion.

What are the significant disadvantages of other tanks? Why don't we start there. Get all the pluses and minuses lined up and then discuss based on that. That would be a good way to go about this, not laying out your bias and inviting people to agree.

[NFaelivrin]

snip

If you mistook "stack management and inner beast timing should be easy for career warriors" for "warrior easiest tank" you might want to re-read my post. What are the disadvantages of the other classes? Let's see.

PLD:
-Overall lowest DPS of all 3 tank classes.
-No significant forms of AOE damage whatsoever.
-Overall lowest threat, both single target and AOE.
-TP starved in under 3 minutes unless spamming Shield Swipe (DPS loss, not doable as OT).
-Clunkiest stance dancing of all 3 tanks.
-Current raid nullifies Sheltron, Bulwark and passive shield blocking outside A2S, eliminating PLD's supposed defensive advantages.

DRK:
-Mediocre mitigation against anything besides magic damage.
-TP starved even faster than PLD, no meaningful means to restore TP whatsoever.
-Main utility is either parry proc based (can't be used as OT) or overlaps with MNK's.
-Stance dancing almost as clunky as PLD, turning grit back on eats a massive amount of your MP and is on GCD.
-Living dead is hands down the most cumbersome immunity cooldown in the game.

[Faytte]

Warriors are pretty much balanced the way other tanks should be (dark knights are quite close).

No glaring weakness.
A few nice advantages.

Dark Knights are pretty close to this.

Paladins are no where near this--with many disadvantages and advantages that only apply in ---some-- content.

[Faytte]

DRK:
-Mediocre mitigation against anything besides magic damage.
-TP starved even faster than PLD, no meaningful means to restore TP whatsoever.
-Main utility is either parry proc based (can't be used as OT) or overlaps with MNK's.
-Stance dancing almost as clunky as PLD, turning grit back on eats a massive amount of your MP and is on GCD.
-Living dead is hands down the most cumbersome immunity cooldown in the game.

This is absolutely false


You have a 20/30% mitigator, just 10% behind sentinel.
You have a -10% reprisal you can use at key moments while tanking anything physical. It being parry based is FINE because otherwise, you would be a warrior and a monk at the same time. The fact it has a proc is what balances this out for Dark Knights (AND means they have physical encounter tools--a paladin has nothing beyond their general cds for magic damage that isnt shared).
You have -10% vs magical.
Dark Dance 30% parry for 20 seconds every 60, vs bulwarks 60% for 15 seconds every --180-- seconds. Yes bulwark is more impressive while its up, but over time, These are very similar powers.
Bulwark is irrelevent past rav ex, since nothing in Savage is a phys buster--you can pop it on a auto attack to basically force a parry (28% vs 20% mitigation, but auto attacks are not massive number values to matter that much).

Also your TP issues? Really? You can, after every combo when you feel you are getting low, unmend for a gcd and still hit the target for 150 potency and unlike paladin or warrior, regain a full GCDs worth of TP. That is a better damage to tp regen ratio than paladins have, and given you also have better tp to damage ratios--is a win win. If Dark Knights run out of damage on a fight, it is because they are ignoring that entirely. Paladin options? Stop damaging the boss to cast stone shield---which does nothing to help their already bad damage.

TLDR:

You have tools for physical and magical damage. You are just misunderstanding your own class if you think they were meant to always be used in every fight (reprisal/dark dance=physical, dark mind/delirum=magtical).
You have TP management, Dark Knights just choose to ignore it.
And after benediction was fixed with living dead, its really not all that bad (i static savage as a war and my ot is a dark knight. Its never failed for us. Maybe your healers stink?).

[Erim-Nelhah]

...
What are the disadvantages of the other classes? Let's see.

PLD:
...
-Current raid nullifies Sheltron, Bulwark and passive shield blocking outside A2S, eliminating PLD's supposed defensive advantages.

Actually (speaking for Alex Normal), A1 has a lot of physical damage. In fact, iirc, only the tank buster (prey) is magical. Even the jump is physical, and can be blocked/parried. A2 is almost entirely physical (explosions aside), and while the boss in A3 has a number of magical attacks, I'm pretty sure his primary cleave is physical, not magical. The only pure-magical fight in the bunch is A4, and even then there are the adds (if I get paired with a pally in there, I usually ask him/her to offtank).

--Erim Nelhah

[NFaelivrin]

I'm a bit too sleepy to respond right now but 1) I didn't consider using unmend as a TP restore, I feel it might be a significant DPS loss (which is significant as OT) however and 2) In general yeah, some of DRK's issues are mitigated by the fact that Alex Savage is very heavily oriented towards magic damage, unfortunately this very design that benefits DRK breaks a good chunk of PLDs defensive cooldowns. Apologies for the undetailed response, I might give a more thorough one later when I'm not about to go sleep.

[Faytte]

I'm a bit too sleepy to respond right now but 1) I didn't consider using unmend as a TP restore, I feel it might be a significant DPS loss (which is significant as OT) however and 2) In general yeah, some of DRK's issues are mitigated by the fact that Alex Savage is very heavily oriented towards magic damage, unfortunately this very design that benefits DRK breaks a good chunk of PLDs defensive cooldowns. Apologies for the undetailed response, I might give a more thorough one later when I'm not about to go sleep.

A dps loss over what? We are comparing classes and tp regen right?

A dark can hit a button, do 150 damage (the same as Hard Slash) and regen a full 60 tp in that time frame.
A paladin can...do nothing---cast a spell?
Up until Heavensward, OT warriors had nothing either. They had no stack mechanic as OT, no free spells they could use, and they never complained about going out of TP. I see this all the time on Dark Knights which --have-- a built in method of tp they ignore, because I feel largely they are used to being dps and feel invigorate is a right they are afforded by Yoshida.

Truth is, you have tp management.
Bosses and encounters tend to have small breaks to regen tp.
Ninjas, Bards and Machinists all exist.

The only place you are running out of tp is on dummies. If you are running out in AS1 or AS2, you are basically ignoring your mana bar on a drk for being used for anything other than dark arts--which is a fail on your side. TP is more valuable for adding 140 potency to soul eater ^_^

Your second point is basically on the money.

Paladins are under tuned on damage.
Paladins have an enimity generator based on 2.0 when it was there ---only-- combo, and balanced around them spamming it.
Paladins additional cooldowns work on bursty physical damage; which does not really exist in the game (Ravanah was close but not really).

[Faytte]

Actually (speaking for Alex Normal), A1 has a lot of physical damage. In fact, iirc, only the tank buster (prey) is magical. Even the jump is physical, and can be blocked/parried. A2 is almost entirely physical (explosions aside), and while the boss in A3 has a number of magical attacks, I'm pretty sure his primary cleave is physical, not magical. The only pure-magical fight in the bunch is A4, and even then there are the adds (if I get paired with a pally in there, I usually ask him/her to offtank).

--Erim Nelhah

A1 auto attacks are physical
The lazer attacks they hit you with (cleave) are magical (cannot be parried or blocked).
Prey is also magical (which isnt really a buster--it can hit anyone i believe--but worth mitigating since you are already taking other damage off the boss).
The jumps are irrelevant?

[Fue]

Did you really just compare unmend as an tp restore to warriors unlimited tp?

[Starkbeaumont]

If anything WAR's weakest spot is when it comes to group pulling. while they now have raw intuition, it's still pretty tough to keep large groups infront of you (awareness says hi). also their aoe enmity management is almost entirely TP based. and if you pull multiple groups one after another you'll run out of CDs (and TP)

Did you really just compare unmend as an tp restore to warriors unlimited tp?

200 TP per minute (for which you have to switch DPS stance first) is not unlimted tp btw. Invigorate on a 2min timer does basically the same and melee still run out of tp