Do Warriors have any single disadvantage?

[Faytte]

Actually (speaking for Alex Normal), A1 has a lot of physical damage. In fact, iirc, only the tank buster (prey) is magical. Even the jump is physical, and can be blocked/parried. A2 is almost entirely physical (explosions aside), and while the boss in A3 has a number of magical attacks, I'm pretty sure his primary cleave is physical, not magical. The only pure-magical fight in the bunch is A4, and even then there are the adds (if I get paired with a pally in there, I usually ask him/her to offtank).

--Erim Nelhah

A1 auto attacks are physical
The lazer attacks they hit you with (cleave) are magical (cannot be parried or blocked).
Prey is also magical (which isnt really a buster--it can hit anyone i believe--but worth mitigating since you are already taking other damage off the boss).
The jumps are irrelevant?

[Fue]

Did you really just compare unmend as an tp restore to warriors unlimited tp?

[Erim-Nelhah]

A1 auto attacks are physical
The lazer attacks they hit you with (cleave) are magical (cannot be parried or blocked).
Prey is also magical (which isnt really a buster--it can hit anyone i believe--but worth mitigating since you are already taking other damage off the boss).
The jumps are irrelevant?

I'd forgotten about the cleave.
No, Prey isn't a buster in A1N. It is in A1S, tho, iiuc (never tried it). Still, my point stands - PLD CDs aren't completely worthless in A1-A3, and in fact should be quite valuable in A3 because his cleave is also his "buster".

The reason DRK is currently favored over PLD in progression isn't the mitigation, it's the DPS (I can't blame current progression teams for running DRK/WAR given that the DPS checks start at nearly 6k). I can generally stay pretty darned close to a sword oath pld while Grit is up. If I drop Grit, it's no contest - PLD hits like a wet noodle and DRK hits like a truck. WAR, otoh, hits like a Freight Train and tends to have better mitigation than DRK too.

--Erim Nelhah

[Faytte]

Warriors are pretty much balanced the way other tanks should be (dark knights are quite close).

No glaring weakness.
A few nice advantages.

Dark Knights are pretty close to this.

Paladins are no where near this--with many disadvantages and advantages that only apply in ---some-- content.

[NFaelivrin]

I'm a bit too sleepy to respond right now but 1) I didn't consider using unmend as a TP restore, I feel it might be a significant DPS loss (which is significant as OT) however and 2) In general yeah, some of DRK's issues are mitigated by the fact that Alex Savage is very heavily oriented towards magic damage, unfortunately this very design that benefits DRK breaks a good chunk of PLDs defensive cooldowns. Apologies for the undetailed response, I might give a more thorough one later when I'm not about to go sleep.

[Faytte]

I'm a bit too sleepy to respond right now but 1) I didn't consider using unmend as a TP restore, I feel it might be a significant DPS loss (which is significant as OT) however and 2) In general yeah, some of DRK's issues are mitigated by the fact that Alex Savage is very heavily oriented towards magic damage, unfortunately this very design that benefits DRK breaks a good chunk of PLDs defensive cooldowns. Apologies for the undetailed response, I might give a more thorough one later when I'm not about to go sleep.

A dps loss over what? We are comparing classes and tp regen right?

A dark can hit a button, do 150 damage (the same as Hard Slash) and regen a full 60 tp in that time frame.
A paladin can...do nothing---cast a spell?
Up until Heavensward, OT warriors had nothing either. They had no stack mechanic as OT, no free spells they could use, and they never complained about going out of TP. I see this all the time on Dark Knights which --have-- a built in method of tp they ignore, because I feel largely they are used to being dps and feel invigorate is a right they are afforded by Yoshida.

Truth is, you have tp management.
Bosses and encounters tend to have small breaks to regen tp.
Ninjas, Bards and Machinists all exist.

The only place you are running out of tp is on dummies. If you are running out in AS1 or AS2, you are basically ignoring your mana bar on a drk for being used for anything other than dark arts--which is a fail on your side. TP is more valuable for adding 140 potency to soul eater ^_^

Your second point is basically on the money.

Paladins are under tuned on damage.
Paladins have an enimity generator based on 2.0 when it was there ---only-- combo, and balanced around them spamming it.
Paladins additional cooldowns work on bursty physical damage; which does not really exist in the game (Ravanah was close but not really).

[Starkbeaumont]

If anything WAR's weakest spot is when it comes to group pulling. while they now have raw intuition, it's still pretty tough to keep large groups infront of you (awareness says hi). also their aoe enmity management is almost entirely TP based. and if you pull multiple groups one after another you'll run out of CDs (and TP)

Did you really just compare unmend as an tp restore to warriors unlimited tp?

200 TP per minute (for which you have to switch DPS stance first) is not unlimted tp btw. Invigorate on a 2min timer does basically the same and melee still run out of tp

[Fue]

If anything WAR's weakest spot is when it comes to group pulling. while they now have raw intuition, it's still pretty tough to keep large groups infront of you (awareness says hi). also their aoe enmity management is almost entirely TP based. and if you pull multiple groups one after another you'll run out of CDs (and TP)

I disagree. Im having no problems with cd's or tp even in A2 Savage where i go pretty much spam happy with overpower.

[Alphras]

- healing abilities are not affected by defiance
- compared to the 20% DR of the other tanks, heals are about 4% less effective in general
- less MT DPS than DRK if they need to stay in Defiance/use stacks and cooldowns for mitigation
- very strict timings, which is not a disadvantage if the player is good and has a good connection
- no HG

[Reynhart]

Ok, a little weird idea, but than can solve some problems.
In 3.0, PLD got a healing spell. What if a PLD OT could be enough to keep the MT alive ?
This way, you could create party setup with any MT, a WAR OT and two healers, or, any MT a PLD OT and one healer.

Will the PLD OT deal far less damage than the WAR ? Yeah, sure, but it allows you to bring one DPS instead of a second healer, and forcing your first healer to be 100% healing throughout the fight, for an overall same party DPS.

For example, Clemency could be affected by the target's enmity, thus being designed specifically for healing the main tank. And since it's a single target spell, you would still need a healer for raid wide damage.

After all, it doesn't really matter if each class is stricly balanced in every way, as long as there is several setup based on each pros and cons. As for fights where there are several big targets, WAR doesn't shine much more than other tanks.

Of course, a DRK should have a spot on its own, too.