Bard and how to fix it.

[Shurrikhan]

In the short period of time I've had WM, the biggest problem I'm having with it, is the cast time vs recast time(GCD).

They don't line up and it's driving me nuts.

if I had a 2.5s GCD with a 2.5s cast time, great. Nope. 1.44 cast with 2.4 recast... feels absurdly annoying.

...you'd never be able to touch an oGCD losslessly again if it weren't for that fact. Would that not feel annoying?

While yes, I somewhat agree that BRD is in an alright place in terms of stand still damage, it is clunky. Nothing about it feels right even in something like Faust. Before passing full judgment, I'd like to see how Skill Speed really affects the cooldown on EA, perhaps it will line up better with a round of shots rather then either waiting half a CD or pushing it back half a CD. It just doesn't work ATM with at the gear I am in (456 SS).

As for another major point you bring up however, that double melee comp. To have an ability that can be 100% or 200% better just by the group comp is mess up. Though not min-max, groups can essentially have 0 casters (aside from healers) There is no reason that an ability like foes can't be changed to just "lowers enemy resistance by 2%" (or even 1.5%) instead of just magic resistance by 10%. It then covers all group comps instead of benefiting one far more then another.

Iirc, it lines up as long as you average a single-weave with decent internet across the 15s duration. If you skip ahead via EA (by up to 1.5s, since you can cut instantly into the next GCD and the post-cast of the GCD before it), you can either wait the 1.0 to 1.5s and use another ability as EA comes up, or you can go ahead and double-weave once or twice to make it line back up. Both are viable options.

One idea I liked for Foe Requiem was for it to drain far less mana naturally but also sap mana every time a spell successfully hits a Foe-affected target (AoE blooms would not affect it, only the targeted hit causing the AoE), making your mana drain faster when it's doing more. It would be balanced for a 2-caster team, such that if you had only a single caster attacking, it would be far more sustainable, lasting at least twice as long, though it would also take a beating with two casters and both healers dpsing. The issues with the idea are pretty obvious though -- e.g. Ruin. When one considers having to balance that through proportioning the costs against adjusted potencies... well, that's then far too complicated.

On a sidenote the same idea was usable for Army's Paeon. And... it's also the fact of life every DRG faces, except that they at least buff themselves as well. No ranged, no real bonus, as they already need the debuff for themselves to do competitive dps.

[RiceisNice]

...

Multi dotting is still a thing on most Alexander encounters, which is going to bypass the usual 3-second tick on bloodletter. Bard used to require a fast reaction to pick up on procs so you didn't double it up (which is the case for both SS and BL), but I'm finding myself having to delay one or another if a BL procs happens during another of my oGCD.

While wasting proc SS is less ofa potency loss than firestarter, you also need to remember that SS is part of our regular rotations outside of using it as a proc, you'll inevitably get those times where you start casting SS and then gain the proc, making you get neither the crit or the instant cast bonus. Which also drains down our finite TP since it's a higher cost than heavy shot. And my TP is certainly guzzled a lot more than that of MCH.

And on the side note, there needs to be some sort of differentiation between MCH and BRD gameplay, esp when GB/WM is factored. I leveled both and this just feels like a halfassed design when they decided to slap WM onto bard (Which makes the awkward/disjointed more gameplay even more obvious because MCH pulls it off much much better) Even if you were to give them some freedom of movement through stacking SS procs, that'd only make them play even more similar to MCH. I honestly thought that MCH would be the one that would gain more dps from remaining stationary when possibe (when they previewed the class) while bard would be the one that'd maintain their fast-paced, reactive gameplay (which all WM does is slow it down because you can't immediately pick up the procs if it occurs mid cast, or if it's done right after a oGCD and you're left with delaying weaponskill or BL) One thing they could've done was either give bard cast times on all of their oGCDs, or give machinists an oGCD of 2 second with their 1.5 second cast time (and remove the instant cast bonus from procs, although procs need to be changed up so they're determined immediately). At least one class would feel like a faster blackmage without any disconnects inbetween each ability and more emphasis on reactive procs, while the other requires planning with oGCDs

The bard animations are also pretty terrible. You can even tell that windbite and empyreal arrow were not designed with oGCD clipping in mind. And well...ironjaws....

[Geardagas]

1 - There is a delay that shouldn't exist between using a cd and when the next ability goes off. It should be seamless, but I get at least three button presses while spamming EA after using barrage or something. Does this happen to anyone else? It definitely happens to me and it's annoying.

2 - That accursed hissing sound effect during WM. Is gas forcibly escaping from my bow or something?

3 - Completely remove WM cooldown. Let us turn it on and off at will.

4 - There is no reason why our DPS should be noticeably lower than everyone else's. Our support isn't nearly good enough to warrant it. Simple solution: give bloodletter and rain of death a decent piercing resist debuff instead of the completely worthless evasion down.

5 - Minor nitpick: make moves more thematic. Why does a move called WANDERER'S minstrel cause me to stand still? How does a move called Iron Jaws refresh my dots?

6 - Give me a reason to sing more. Give me better songs. Look at bard from FFXI for inspiration.

[Inferiae]

1 - There is a delay that shouldn't exist between using a cd and when the next ability goes off. It should be seamless, but I get at least three button presses while spamming EA after using barrage or something. Does this happen to anyone else? It definitely happens to me and it's annoying.

Even worse: my Barrage interrupts my EA cast. All. The. Time. (Same with BL and HS/SS, or any other cooldown, really)

[Nadirah]

...you'd never be able to touch an oGCD losslessly again if it weren't for that fact. Would that not feel annoying?

You don't queue them up right at the end of a cast?

Do you play anything *but* bard or something? I don't have issues with oGCDs and full GCD cast times on other classes...

2 - That accursed hissing sound effect during WM. Is gas forcibly escaping from my bow or something?

Your bow now has a gas cycling system. Automatic rifle!.. erm.. bow!

[Necato]

5 - Minor nitpick: make moves more thematic. Why does a move called WANDERER'S minstrel cause me to stand still? How does a move called Iron Jaws refresh my dots?

A minuet was a "small steps" dance requiring little movement.
As for Iron Jaws... our dots are called Venomous and Wind bites.
To me both names fit perfectly.

Agreed with your other points but the 3, the 15s cooldown is fine.
And they won't turn us into FFXI Bard. Support job doesn't and won't exist in FFXIV.
Though we are supposed to support our team...

[Shurrikhan]

Multi dotting is still a thing on most Alexander encounters, which is going to bypass the usual 3-second tick on bloodletter. Bard used to require a fast reaction to pick up on procs so you didn't double it up (which is the case for both SS and BL), but I'm finding myself having to delay one or another if a BL procs happens during another of my oGCD.

True. I didn't think to mention that set of situations. Again though, I don't mind adjusting situations when done.

While wasting proc SS is less of a potency loss than firestarter, you also need to remember that SS is part of our regular rotations outside of using it as a proc, you'll inevitably get those times where you start casting SS and then gain the proc, making you get neither the crit or the instant cast bonus. Which also drains down our finite TP since it's a higher cost than heavy shot. And my TP is certainly guzzled a lot more than that of MCH.

Its TP-guzzling is far less the issue to me. I can pretty well forget Invigorate exists over a... decently long fight, really, and still be fine if I've base SS and almost only refresh DoTs through IJ. That does not happen on any other physical dps I've played at 60 (admittedly I've yet to get MCH there and DRG has a level and a half to go). To me it's down to the Firestarter issue. That one part of WM-Bard really does feel like clunk.

I can't comment on your below portion until my MCH hits 60, or at least GB.

The bard animations are also pretty terrible. You can even tell that windbite and empyreal arrow were not designed with oGCD clipping in mind. And well...ironjaws....

*shiver* yes. And that sound...

1 - There is a delay that shouldn't exist between using a cd and when the next ability goes off. It should be seamless, but I get at least three button presses while spamming EA after using barrage or something. Does this happen to anyone else? It definitely happens to me and it's annoying.

I haven't had this yet. It's instant for me. But I can also cast instantly after repelling shot w/o interrupt at least with WTFast, so it may be an ISP thing.

2 - That accursed hissing sound effect during WM. Is gas forcibly escaping from my bow or something?
3 - Completely remove WM cooldown. Let us turn it on and off at will.
4 - There is no reason why our DPS should be noticeably lower than everyone else's. Our support isn't nearly good enough to warrant it. Simple solution: give bloodletter and rain of death a decent piercing resist debuff instead of the completely worthless evasion down.
6 - Give me a reason to sing more. Give me better songs. Look at bard from FFXI for inspiration.

Agreed/Yes please, to all. Though I'd personally take more support options over closer dps, partly because when the going gets rough for all other jobs we're usually still fairing pretty well, not too differently from in 2.x. And... I like the potential it has.

You don't queue them up right at the end of a cast?

Do you play anything *but* bard or something? I don't have issues with oGCDs and full GCD cast times on other classes...

You're right. There can't possibly be a reason so many SMNs prefer to Fester/Spur/Rouse after a Bio / Ruin II. Why would anyone weave?

I Ruin II before and *after* fester, and if you fester directly after Bio you risk not getting the potentcy bonus because Bio doesn't register on the target the moment it's applied. This is also why you don't Bane immediately after application.

If you played Summoner at all you'd know that last one. It has nothing to do with the cast time.

I've at one time or another played SMN on every turn of Coil aside from T13. So yes, I've played the class. Just not my first choice to level to 60.
The majority of your Festers will be done after DoTs are already in place or have been recently re-applied... initial application (yes I know its own issues well) is the not what I was speaking of.
As 'tandem' as they might be, your cast time will still be delayed, even if faintly, by the oGCD animation.

[Nadirah]

I Ruin II before and *after* fester, and if you fester directly after Bio you risk not getting the potentcy bonus because Bio doesn't register on the target the moment it's applied. This is also why you don't Bane immediately after application.

If you played Summoner at all you'd know that last one. It has nothing to do with the cast time.

[Nadirah]

On top of it, oGCD abilies do not trigger the GCD, meaning you *can* cast them in tandem. Unless your reaction time is so bad you can't release one key a fraction of a second before the other. In that case I can't help you.

Then again, I also don't macro them and have the oGCD queued so it goes off the instant the cast finishes.

My point being, you don't need a cast time shorter than GCD to weave.

[RiceisNice]

On top of it, oGCD abilies do not trigger the GCD, meaning you *can* cast them in tandem. Unless your reaction time is so bad you can't release one key a fraction of a second before the other. In that case I can't help you.

Then again, I also don't macro them and have the oGCD queued so it goes off the instant the cast finishes.

My point being, you don't need a cast time shorter than GCD to weave.

You can't start an ability right after another ability, regardless of if its an oGCD or not. That's why you can't fit more than 2 oGCDs per GCD during WM unless you want to clip into your next weaponskill, or popping all the buffs at the same time. If there was a buffer time between starting an ability and it finishing (like cast times) then you can.

An example, you can queue up empyreal arrow right after a hard-casted heavy shot, but you cannot queue an empyreal arrow right after a bloodletter or another instant cast ability/buff.