Physick is too weak for lvl 60 casters?

[Malevicton]

Well no. Burden is in the proof. All it takes is for one caster to legitimately save a run (dungeon, FATE, quest, or trial) at 50 and it's proven useful. There's a litany of evidence of people doing that, enough so that it can be called decent. Not all group content was Primal Extreme or Final Coil Something.

You also speak as if all casters are BLMs. Some of us play SMN, vis-a-vis, we usually don't cast sleep. There are pets, but they have to establish hate, that takes time. Physick is SMN's only useful defensive action, native or cross-class.


Caster utility will always be good for a group, and as so many have pointed out, there's no such thing as a perfect situation. Calling balancing of a single healing spell on a caster is a nightmare is overly dramatic, and I don't feel like giving developers a free pass on that.

There's also a litany of evidence that people are overestimating the impact of their heals and/or straight up lying about the potency. So. Yeah. You could rely on anecdotal evidence from here on the forums (lul) or you could look at the potency of the heal compared to incoming damage. It's not decent.

It would absolutely be a pain to balance, but whether it is or not it's entirely unnecessary to go through. There's no real demand for this in any content.

There is other content too, not only savage mode, you know?

And if you're often using physick in those other situations then either you seriously overestimate how much of an impact you're making, or your groups are absolutely awful (or both).

[Ayanno]

*sigh*

If people's counter points are being made only with EX Primals/Coil/Alex Savage in mind....then stop. There is more content then the hardest content, and not everything happens perfectly every single time.

Also, yesterday during leveling roulette in Cutter's Cry, as SMN, the tank was a primadonna and bailed. I won't go into why, it's irrelevant. What I will go into is to say that I summoned Titan and we, the WHM, NIN and my SMN, proceeded to work our to the last boss. I used sustain every time, as well as Physick to keep my pet alive. Since I was synced at 40, the spell healed a decent amount of the pet's HP, as well as my teammates.

We get to the last boss, Chimera. There were a couple of "Ooops!" moments from all 3 of us where I had to use Physick to keep the NIN and WHM alive. At differing points, the NIN, WHM, and myself all had our HP drop into double digits. My physicks helped the healer recover. We didn't wipe at all, not on trash or the last boss.

That scenario would not be possible at 60 because the spell does not scale to accommodate our increased HP totals, nor mobs increased(by number, not percentage) at 60.

@Male: You should never be content with an ability that is useless, no matter if it's always been that way. No ability, cross class or native, should be useless. Even if it's a small niche use, every ability should be useful somewhere, otherwise we may as well just delete the abilities from the game, not just our hotbars.

[justinjarjar]

*sigh*

If people's counter points are being made only with EX Primals/Coil/Alex Savage in mind....then stop. .There is more content then the hardest content, and not everything happens perfectly every single time.

Also, yesterday during leveling roulette in Cutter's Cry, as SMN, the tank was a primadonna and bailed. I won't go into why, it's irrelevant. What I will go into is to say that I summoned Titan and we, the WHM, NIN and my SMN, proceeded to work our to the last boss. I used sustain every time, as well as Physick to keep my pet alive. Since I was synced at 40, the spell healed a decent amount of the pet's HP, as well as my teammates.

We get to the last boss, Chimera. There were a couple of "Ooops!" moments from all 3 of us where I had to use Physick to keep the NIN and WHM alive. At differing points, the NIN, WHM, and myself all had our HP drop into double digits. My physicks helped the healer recover. We didn't wipe at all, not on trash or the last boss.

That scenario would not be possible at 60 because the spell does not scale to accommodate our increased HP totals, nor mobs increased(by number, not percentage) at 60.

@Male: You should never be content with an ability that is useless, no matter if it's always been that way. No ability, cross class or native, should be useless. Even if it's a small niche use, every ability should be useful somewhere, otherwise we may as well just delete the abilities from the game, not just our hotbars.

But it is balanced correctly, no game should balance around solo play. Cutters is still in the dung category of we need no tank or dedicated healer (as long as you have some side skills it can be done ez) so not a great example. You must not understand balance if you think it should be around anything but group content at highest level. Never seen a game do otherwise nor should i expect them to, your counter argument is also as weak if not weaker, but glad you think phys. is not working as intended. (also skill bloat is becoming a problem in this game hope they make more skills useless or replace them to get rid of some of the bloat).

[Malevicton]

That scenario would not be possible at 60 because the spell does not scale to accommodate our increased HP totals, nor mobs increased(by number, not percentage) at 60.

@Male: You should never be content with an ability that is useless, no matter if it's always been that way. No ability, cross class or native, should be useless. Even if it's a small niche use, every ability should be useful somewhere, otherwise we may as well just delete the abilities from the game, not just our hotbars.

You aren't really supposed to be able to 3 man lvl 60 dungeons. Working as intended

At this point you're going way off on a thing about useless abilities in general, and the game's design. That's not really relevant to the original topic, which argued that casters lost a utility by not having scaled heals, and as such needed a buff to regain balance.

If we're gonna have the useless abilities conversation then there are plenty of other moves as well that need to be addressed, but physick would be near the bottom of the list. It's still useful for sch, which is what it was designed for. A wasted skill for smn, sure, but not nearly as much so as something like freeze or haymaker, where it was designed for a job that it's useless for.

[Yukiko]

(..) If we're gonna have the useless abilities conversation (..)

Useless is not the same as "unused", and if you dont believe me (even when telling you i am main SMN playing ALL content) well... then its hopless to discuss. If i say as main SMN you are using it and you counter with "its a lie" - either i should stop arguing with you or well... you cant be serious then... if you dont need that skill, good for you, but many others are using it.

[justinjarjar]

Useless is not the same as "unused", and if you dont beliefe me (even when telling you i am main SMN playing ALL content) well... then its hopless to discuss. If i say as main SMN you are using it and you counter with "its a lie" - either i should stop arguing with you or well... you cant be serious then... if you dont need that skill, good for you, but many others are using it.

no one said you are lieing, just that phys. is balanced.

[Ayanno]

Justinjarjar.....the scenario I posted wouldn't be possible in The Vault. They are both leveling dungeons, 4 man content. Easy stuff. One would be possible, the other not, due to scaling.

Tis true you cannot balance an MMO around solo work, it is also true you cannot balance the game entirely around the hardest content. You must factor in ALL group content, not just the bleeding edge raiders in Savage.

If an ability or spell doesn't work in ANY group content at current level cap, then it needs to be looked at. This is for all abilities or spells in the game. If something has lost even it's niche use in the increased levels, then it should be adjusted to at the very least, return that niche use back to the player. In this case, Physick has lost a niche use it had after Heavensward. If this is the devs intention, then they need to state it as such. They haven't one way or the other, as of yet.

Surely....surely we can all agree on that point, yes?

EDIT: @Maleviton: You aren't supposed to be able to clear a level 40 dungeon with 3 people either. But it's possible. Improbable and impossible are two different things.

Also, I'm going where the conversation takes us, nothing more. I am not on some soap box, or a tangent or anything else. No crusades, nothing but attempting to have a discussion about the game in it's current state.

Nothing more.

[Malevicton]

Useless is not the same as "unused", and if you dont beliefe me (even when telling you i am main SMN playing ALL content) well... then its hopless to discuss. If i say as main SMN you are using it and you counter with "its a lie" - either i should stop arguing with you or well... you cant be serious then... if you dont need that skill, good for you, but many others are using it.

Never said you lied about anything, but sure, let's go with this. You may use it, but that doesn't mean it's effective. In theory i could blizz1/freeze/scathe kite through solo content, that doesn't mean that freeze/scathe kiting is useful or efficient.

[Saggo]

There's also a litany of evidence that people are overestimating the impact of their heals and/or straight up lying about the potency. So. Yeah. You could rely on anecdotal evidence from here on the forums (lul) or you could look at the potency of the heal compared to incoming damage. It's not decent.

It would absolutely be a pain to balance, but whether it is or not it's entirely unnecessary to go through. There's no real demand for this in any content.

The potency is the same for everyone, it's MND vs damage, and caster MND was proportionally high enough at 50 for a lot of group content. It was fine.

It would absolutely be a pain to balance, but whether it is or not it's entirely unnecessary to go through. There's no real demand for this in any content.

A single spell, a pain? There's no real reason to keep it that way.

[justinjarjar]

snip

No abilities should be balanced around raid content, difficulty of class maybe not, but the balance is more needed in end game content over leveling content. I also am sure that they meant to phase out phys. (which is good less bloat they need to do more) in SMNs since they are pure dps and already have some self heals/ pet heals in their arsenal. If phys was on a 120 second cooldown then 1k heal would be fine, anything but it should be around 500.