I dont get all the Bard hatred..

[Darian]

As it's been said by many here.. All the lost blood letter procs, SS procs, repelling shot action cancels, and flaming arrow placement down time would like to have a word with this so-called " improvement " and "perfectly fine gameplay "

[ckc22]

that we still have the lowest WD (-8 ilvl 210 weapons) ,

This is one thing I've never really understood - why is their WD lowered when choosing to use their support skills already lowers their damage? Why are bard/mch getting double dinged for support when many other classes have support abilities that don't destroy their personal output.

8 WD is the equivalent of brd/mch's weapon being 35 ilvls behind.... that's huge.

[Shunye]

As it's been said by many here.. All the lost blood letter procs, SS procs, repelling shot action cancels, and flaming arrow placement down time would like to have a word with this so-called " improvement " and "perfectly fine gameplay "

Let me let you in on a little secret since you are obviously new to the class. Everything outside of these "so called lost bloodletter procs" are things that have existed since 2.0. Oh and that repelling shot action cancelling is reliant on your latency. I personally very very rarely have it happen, if at all.

You guys need to stop trying to make a mountain out of a molehill and just play the game. You very well may enjoy it if you bother learning how to play the new better style.

[Darian]

How so? SS has never been a issue when there were no cast times, flame arrow placement was not an issue before because of no cast, repelling has a very similar is to NIN mudra. You yourself even admit the skill depends on latency when it was not even a topic before. I could also mention that rain of death adds evasion down which is kind of ironic since they lowered the amount of acc needed (notice all the mage weapons without acc?). Oh let's not forget that quick knock and wide volley are now the exact same skill.

I'm dealing with cast times but the say Bard is perfectly fine is a bit much. I should be losing DPS from not playing the class correctly NOT because SE wanted to copy/paste a MCH skill without adjusting others properly.

[RiceisNice]

Let me let you in on a little secret since you are obviously new to the class. Everything outside of these "so called lost bloodletter procs" are things that have existed since 2.0. Oh and that repelling shot action cancelling is reliant on your latency. I personally very very rarely have it happen, if at all.

You guys need to stop trying to make a mountain out of a molehill and just play the game. You very well may enjoy it if you bother learning how to play the new better style.

There is no "new" playstyle, it's exactly the same except its cast times that get in the way of using oGCDs and delaying procs. Some of us have learned to play, and some of us still dislike how cumbersome it is. Having it exist on other classes doesn't make it any less annoying, and its more so because it clips even worse than BLM's firestarter (which isn't used as frequently for them nowadays anyway).

It's tolerable for some people and it works for the most part as far as pulling numbers is concerned, but to say it's "perfect" or that it has no problems is a longshot from a gameplay perspective. I'm sure as hell not having a fun time when I'm casting straight shot and see straighter shot scroll down my screen, wasting my TP and potency.

[Noira]

none of those stances change how the job plays though, abilities that can be used in both stances don't change while every weaponskill changes for bard with wanderer's minuet

Uh yes it does... I just said named abiities that can only be used in certain stances or forms that change how the job plays.

While thye may not have a "cast" time they change how the class functions in order to retain high dps.

[RinchanNau]

As it's been said by many here.. All the lost blood letter procs, SS procs, repelling shot action cancels, and flaming arrow placement down time would like to have a word with this so-called " improvement " and "perfectly fine gameplay "

Please tell me about all the loss.

http://www.twitch.tv/rinchannau/v/8728852 (A1 savage: 1035 DPS)

The current priority system favors BL procs over buffs and Empyreal Arrow. If you miss more than a few procs in an encounter you need to refine your priority system and button pressing. Repelling shot doesn't cancel ANYTHING if you press your buttons in a timely manner. If you press buttons very very slowly only then is that chance it will interrupt your next cast. Losing .2s to place a 350 potency Flaming Arrow is a DPS gain. Sure, it would be nice to be able to place it during your cast, but it's basically a non-issue. No different than placing Shadowflare.

Why don't we talk about the upsides of the changes instead? Huge AoE TP savings. In extended encounters with lots of trash the changes to Rain of Death are amazing. Instead of spamming Quick Nock you can dot a bunch of targets and proc Rain of Death between at least 50% of your GCDs at ZERO TP cost. Iron Jaws is an incredible tool for multi dotting when you have two or three targets (A1 and A3 savage, for example). Empyreal Arrow is the only oGCD weaponskill in the game. It feels like a 1.5s GCD in a lot of ways and is refreshing compared to the constantly 2.5s GCDs most jobs work with.

Example of BRD's new AoE system in a 10 minute encounter with minimal Paeon
http://www.twitch.tv/rinchannau/v/8672711 (A2 savage BRD PoV)

[AkashiXI]

Please tell me about all the loss.

http://www.twitch.tv/rinchannau/v/8728852 (A1 savage: 1035 DPS)

The current priority system favors BL procs over buffs and Empyreal Arrow. If you miss more than a few procs in an encounter you need to refine your priority system and button pressing. Repelling shot doesn't cancel ANYTHING if you press your buttons in a timely manner. If you press buttons very very slowly only then is that chance it will interrupt your next cast. Losing .2s to place a 350 potency Flaming Arrow is a DPS gain. Sure, it would be nice to be able to place it during your cast, but it's basically a non-issue. No different than placing Shadowflare.

So you prioritize Bloodletter over Empyreal arrow? That's a very interesting notion, as right now I'm doing Emp. > Bloodletter > Heavy shot. I don't disbelieve you either, considering I got a measly 900 on my A1 Savage clear... all I'm asking for is an explanation :s.

[Kaith]

The more people that quit bard because they can't handle the improved playable, the better off everyone is. You can argue to yourselves all you want but since the class is perfectly fine in every aspect of the game there is no reason to change anything.

I switched because I just didn't enjoy the job as much anymore. I don't mind the loss of mobility, it's the oGCD management that I dislike. If they could somehow consolidate some of them under WM stance, I'd be happy. Ideally they would remove the cast time from Empyreal too since it's oGCD (but realistically that isn't going to happen)

If they could give us a way of firing Bloodletter and Empyreal at the same time that would go a long way. Like maybe if Bloodletter is up when you fire Empyreal, it adds the Bloodletter potency to Empyreal and eats both cooldowns. Leave the cast time in place. If they are worried about overpowered Barrages, have it only apply to the first hit (or flat out not work with barrage)

[RinchanNau]

So you prioritize Bloodletter over Empyreal arrow? That's a very interesting notion, as right now I'm doing Emp. > Bloodletter > Heavy shot. I don't disbelieve you either, considering I got a measly 900 on my A1 Savage clear... all I'm asking for is an explanation :s.

Consider that Bloodletter is generally used in that 1s time spam after your cast. 150 potency per second. Empyreal Arrow is 220 potency in 1.5s. 146.7 potency per second. Using Empyreal Arrow immediately every time it is off cooldown over a Bloodletter proc is a DPS loss.

Before the buff to Wanderer's Minuet Empyreal Arrow was 240 potency. 160 potency per second. Since the WM changes and nerfs to Sidewinder and Empyreal Arrow potency the priority system changed.