3.05 Crafting Rotation lv 60** Materials / Gear

[Jade-Nephrite]

Maybe I'm missing something but ppl are saying Maker's Mark is better than Muscle memory but I don't see it. How is it better and why is it worth 2 of my already limited cross class slots?

I think Rath's post sums up how it could be more effective, during the 15 free Flawless Synthesis you use 1 for Comfort Zone, then for every ToT you can get a 70% Precise Touch during the rest, so 2x "Good" Conditions during the 15 steps could give you 3-stacks of Inner Quiet, and if you do that you need to land 10/12 remaining Flawless. Also every ToT allows you to change a Hasty to a Basic / Precise Touch throughout.

It definitely helps, but I dislike Rapid Synthesis, I could start Melding my left-side with CP and I can bring my rotation in the OP down to 2x ToT necessary. Then just Hasty RNG annoyance. If I get more than 3x ToT we could also convert a Hasty to a Basic / Precise as well... granted if we get 5+ goods which doesn't happen often.

[Ranzan]

That's pretty good but I feel it's not worth 2 slots. Hopefully when I get home I will give it another try cause CP aspect of it sounds nice. It's puts you at a CP advantage rite?

[Rath]

I think Rath's post sums up how it could be more effective, during the 15 free Flawless Synthesis you use 1 for Comfort Zone, then for every ToT you can get a 70% Precise Touch during the rest, so 2x "Good" Conditions during the 15 steps could give you 3-stacks of Inner Quiet, and if you do that you need to land 10/12 remaining Flawless. Also every ToT allows you to change a Hasty to a Basic / Precise Touch throughout.

It definitely helps, but I dislike Rapid Synthesis, I could start Melding my left-side with CP and I can bring my rotation in the OP down to 2x ToT necessary. Then just Hasty RNG annoyance. If I get more than 3x ToT we could also convert a Hasty to a Basic / Precise as well... granted if we get 5+ goods which doesn't happen often.

I will put it in points.

1.) Muscle= 473 progress and -10 dura. 6 CP cost. 1 CC required

2.) MM/FT/CZ = 400 progress needed (allows for 4 failures at 90%) A chance at ToT IF you have reached that progress. For 0 durability loss. 2 CC skills required. It gives 15 stacks 1 should always be used for CZ right away making it essentially a 14 stack move for 6 CP cost.

3.) RS x2 = 2 chances to fail with a 80% chance to succeed on each. 0 CP cost. Requires using 2 PbP for 30 CP as well to obtain a 50 durability progress-move rotation. 2 CC slots required.

4.) Brand+Name+Ingen. Lots of CP and up to 3 CC skills required. Allows for a 50 durability progresss-move rotation. Edited to 50 dura as rotation has changed.

5.) Muscle+brand+name+ingen figures in 10 potential HT (at least the rotation on the first page). This requires at least 3 ToT with very high ammounts of CP melded and does not really have room to take those ToT without altering rotation (as stated in quoted post).

6.) MM/FT/CZ approach allows for 10 potential HT, has built-in room for ToT after 10 FT, and the 2nd SH2 actually allows for ToT procs to be taken in the 3 moves following. This wiggle room can easily be shifted without losing track of your rotation.

[Thrustie]

My biggest problem with your rotation, Rath, is that I'd have to take reclaim off my CC on both LTW and BSM. I'd sooner find a way I could avoid using PbP. Maybe with more craftsmanship.

[Jade-Nephrite]

Snip

I was missing a Hasty Touch in the OP rotation, Manipulation confused me, changed it to Master's Mend. lol The Muscle Memory Rotation is 5 Progress steps: Muscle Memory / Name + Brand x3 / Careful Synthesis II. So same amount of Hasty Touch, the only real difference is the 2x 80% Rapid Synthesis and less required CP and no Innovation. I cut Innovation out if I don't get two ToT's.

I actually haven't melded much CP on my left side yet, I try to keep my tools meld-free to spirit bond them, well I put in 2x crap Materia to speed up the process and convert. There is no Urth's Gift to spiritbond in Heavenward, has anyone converted a Type V yet?

[BushWookie]

So with MaM and FS, what would you use when good pops assuming you're under CZ? PT?

[Rath]

I was missing a Hasty Touch in the OP rotation, Manipulation confused me, changed it to Master's Mend. lol The Muscle Memory Rotation is 5 Progress steps: Muscle Memory / Name + Brand x3 / Careful Synthesis II. So same amount of Hasty Touch, the only real difference is the 2x 80% Rapid Synthesis and less required CP and no Innovation. I cut Innovation out if I don't get two ToT's.

I actually haven't melded much CP on my left side yet, I try to keep my tools meld-free to spirit bond them, well I put in 2x crap Materia to speed up the process and convert. There is no Urth's Gift to spiritbond in Heavenward, has anyone converted a Type V yet?

I am still not sure if that rotation actually can work, even with the 3 ToT as you only use 1 CZ and to add in another drops SH2 from a HT or clips it.

Edit: You need to CZ when it drops and put a HT with the sh before BB. This means that hast is only 70% or you add 3 more cp to make it sh2. On a rotation that requires 3 ToT procs and has such a limited amount of places you can take a ToT without forcing you to HT without SH, it is just too much for me. I would rather gamble on 2 80% RS, that I can afford without ToT procs, then go into a synth knowing I cannot do it without getting those procs. Also, innovation is possible in my rotation as almost every class starts with one of the 10 listed CC skills. That allows the inclusion of innovation with 1 ToT proc in path A, path B it does not as you lose SH2 for ST if you do.

Edit: From the 1436 testing topic OP

Initial Testing
Someone listed 5 dryad saps for 2.5 mil total (which seems rather low...) but I decided to take that opportunity (read, take a hit) to atleast start gathering data about crafting 1436 synths. hopefully these numbers can help the rest of ya'll, as I always am happy to share any info.

My Craftmanship with HQ baked onion soup is 751. Thats the only number pertinent to this since I always start figuring out rotations based on how I"m gonna complete them. I never use rapid because I don't like RNG in a completion step btw. This just a personal thing.



This test afforded me two chances to gather numbers, since both the mat and the final craft have the same difficulty and durability.

First hit, Muscle Memory VS NameBrand:
Muscle Memory (473)
NameBrand (442)

Opening with Muscle Memory is likely a must.

Size of CSII hit with IGII up: 176
Name/Brand Hits after Makers mark:
347, 274, and the last hit is smaller then 176 so only 2 hits of Name Brand are worthwhile.

My stats after consuming HQ Seafood Stew : 719 Craftsmanship / 715 Control / 430 CP

Muscle Memory = 473
Brand of *Element* = 332
Brand of *Element* = 264
Brand of *Element* = 213
Careful Synthesis II = 168

Total = 1450 and we only need 1436.

How does your 3rd name/brand do so much compared to this guys? His craft is higher then yours as well. Does your lower craftsmanship benefit this method as your first 2 did not reduce you low enough that your third becomes weaker then a cs2? Edit: Not benefit per say, as he still finishes with just 2 cs2, which is better.

So with MaM and FS, what would you use when good pops assuming you're under CZ? PT?

I would use ToT if I was at 400 progress already. If I was not but was close and had no fails already, then I would probably ToT as well, otherwise I would ignore it. I would not PT as it costs me durability I did not plan to use and is only 70% success. Getting the ToT however, changes a planned HT into a PT for 2 guaranteed IQ stacks. I would save this CP until I got a good on a HT that I coul dnot afford to take a ToT on to pad quality as well. Of course I would make sure to use it before there was no point though.

[Jade-Nephrite]

I am still not sure if that rotation actually can work, even with the 3 ToT as you only use 1 CZ and to add in another drops SH2 from a HT or clips it.

Edit: You need to CZ when it drops and put a HT with the sh before BB. This means that hast is only 70% or you add 3 more cp to make it sh2. On a rotation that requires 3 ToT procs and has such a limited amount of places you can take a ToT without forcing you to HT without SH, it is just too much for me. I would rather gamble on 2 80% RS, that I can afford without ToT procs, then go into a synth knowing I cannot do it without getting those procs. Also, innovation is possible in my rotation as almost every class starts with one of the 10 listed CC skills. That allows the inclusion of innovation with 1 ToT proc in path A, path B it does not as you lose SH2 for ST if you do

I'm using the old rotations for 3* & 4* I would almost always get 3 ToT, now it's average of 3 ToT, if I get 2x ToT I cut out the Innovation, I've yet to get only 1 "good" proc on a 30+ step rotation, getting 2 has happened.

I don't think he actually tested the 3rd Brand... his will definitely be more than 213, I didn't think mine would be > 168 ( my IN2 + CS2 ) but I tested it anyway.

[Rath]

SNIP

Btw, I am really trying to figure out how you got this to work. This is your rotation below correct? To me it requires 484 CP with 2 CZ added in. Thanks for pointing out that random -58!


Muscle Memory -6
Comfort Zone -66
Inner Quiet -10
Steady Hand II -17
Hasty Touch 8
Hasty Touch 8
Hasty Touch 8
Hasty Touch 8
Hasty Touch 8
Master's Mend II -152
Steady Hand II -17
Hasty Touch 8
CZ -66
Hasty Touch 8
Hasty Touch 8
Hasty Touch 8
Master's Mend -84
Steady Hand II -17
Hasty Touch 8
Great Strides -24
Innovation -10
Byregot's Blessing -16
Steady Hand -14
Name of *Element* -15
Ingenuity II -32
Brand of *Element* -6
Brand of *Element* -6
Brand of *Element* -6
Careful Synthesis II

[Jade-Nephrite]

Btw, I am really trying to figure out how you got this to work. This is your rotation below correct? To me it requires 532 CP with 2 CZ added in already. There has to be something I am missing. Under name are brands free?


Muscle Memory -6
Comfort Zone -66
Inner Quiet -58
Steady Hand II -17
Hasty Touch 8
Hasty Touch 8
Hasty Touch 8
Hasty Touch 8
Hasty Touch 8
Master's Mend II -152
Steady Hand II -17
Hasty Touch 8
CZ -66
Hasty Touch 8
Hasty Touch 8
Hasty Touch 8
Master's Mend -84
Steady Hand II -17
Hasty Touch 8
Great Strides -24
Innovation -10
Byregot's Blessing -16
Steady Hand -14
Name of *Element* -15
Ingenuity II -32
Brand of *Element* -6
Brand of *Element* -6
Brand of *Element* -6
Careful Synthesis II

The only thing I can see is you did a second mm2 and another CZ in there. That is more like an old HT/RS method from 4*. As your post does not even have 30 steps

Inner Quiet -58 Yikes?!