Defilberating the Dead Horse

[scarebearz]

There's also nothing -objectively- wrong with what I said.

Well lets see:

You guys do realize that crafting has always been 20 ilevels behind 'poetic' gear, right?

It is now 30ilvl behind, before it was 20ilvl.

2.0: i70 craft - i90 tome gear. (20ilvl difference)
2.2: i90 craft - i100 tome gear, upgradedable to i110. (20ilvl difference)
2.4: i110 craft - i120 tome gear, upgradedable to i130. (20ilvl difference)
3.05: i180 craft - i200 tome gear, upgradeable to i210. (30ilvl difference)

The main difference here is that we don't have accessories, but unless -all of you made money by selling accessories- back then, which I doubt just judging by Gilgamesh's old market, losing i180 accesories isn't the end of all time.

Accessories were only released at the same time as armour in 2.0, from 2.2 onwards we only got left side and accessories added at a later date. (just like now)

I get it. It does kind of suck, especially if you're a "I MUST BE ALL THE THINGS" kind of person. The system is weighted against you.

Actually with current skills and gears, you can still in theory (I.e. if you could get the mats) be an "omnicrafter", as the specailist skills are not required.

But can we stop with the "IT WAS SO MUCH BETTER AT 2.xx!"? It's illogical. People are -already- crafting high quality two star, and it's the first damn week. You are -still an omnicrafter- at this point in time. If you can hq two star one thing now, you can hq two star -all the things- because you share the same set of gear.

2.x was far better.

Mats were farmable (meaning DoH/DoM/DoW classes could make some gil) with no lockout, they did take a while to get, but those who wanted to make gil farming them could do so.

Craft gears in 2.4 were locked behind sealants, but these could be gotten by lower lvl players, so far more freely avaliable, even though they were expencive at the time.

Current mats require players to have a lvl 58+ main class, lvl 60 geared crafter, lvl 60 geared gatherer. I.e. very few people able to even make use of their weekly cap.

A few people have made 1 or 2 items this week, they are now stuck untill next week to craft 1 or 2 more items. (e.g. a robe would require 300/450 scrips to have just 1 attempt to craft it HQ)

The mats are also shared between DoM/DoW gears and DoH/DoL gears, so players who want to gear up their crafters/gatherers, cannot make any DoW/DoM gear and vice versa.


The problem is not the ilvl of crafted gear, it's fine.

It's not grade 5 materia being hard to get, but would be nice if it was easier.

It's not because people want to remain "omni-crafters", as for 2* at least we pretty much can be.

The problem is the weekly cap on mats/scrips that have shared useage between battle classes, crafters and gatherers.

[Kabooa]

The problem is the weekly cap on mats/scrips that have shared useage between battle classes, crafters and gatherers.

This is what I want to focus on because this was actually a very subtle point. It wasn't the gist of what I was seeing in the doomsday threads.

I don't see this as a problem. It's different, sure, but really, not seeing an issue. Inter dependency / demand is not a bad thing. I can understand why it's frustrating as it's a complete paradigm shift from before where everyone was effectively self sufficient, but creating a demand for something limited means no matter what, you got something of value. How is that a problem? It's a perfect economic move for this style of MMO. Warcraft did the same. (And yes; This game is Final Fantasy Warcraft.) It provides everyone with a leg into the market on something that's value is artificially inflated simply because the game states you can't have more.

This is a casual friendly thing.

Back on the previous points
210 is still alexander savage. 200 may be upgraded, but it's still alexander savage loot. A large amount of the player base will not be running around in full 210 anytime soon.
Later accessory additions means hey, crafting will be even more relevant. +points
I said you can be an omnicrafter. Whether that remains true for 3 stars (Which most of the doomsday threads were pointing towards) remains to be seen.
Choosing between mats and gear is a matter of power vs cost* efficiency. You want the best? Pay up. You want something to get by cheap? Save up. It's the option between 'BiS' and 'Good enough'. (Again, casual friendly thing)

[scarebearz]

This is what I want to focus on because this was actually a very subtle point. It wasn't the gist of what I was seeing in the doomsday threads.

I don't see this as a problem. It's different, sure, but really, not seeing an issue. Inter dependency / demand is not a bad thing. I can understand why it's frustrating as it's a complete paradigm shift from before where everyone was effectively self sufficient, but creating a demand for something limited means no matter what, you got something of value. How is that a problem? It's a perfect economic move for this style of MMO. Warcraft did the same. (And yes; This game is Final Fantasy Warcraft.) It provides everyone with a leg into the market on something that's value is artificially inflated simply because the game states you can't have more.

Crafters need the gatherers red scrips mats, but they need them at a somewhat "sensible" price, else the crafts are just not worth it.

These mats are too hard to get for gatherers to want to sell at that, when they could just save their red scrips and eventually months later gear out their gatherer just using the red scrips (less effort).

Without the gatherer red scrip mats, crafters red scrips are totally useless.

This is a casual friendly thing.

Mats that require a well geared gatherer and crafter to get and many many hours per week on the gathering side, is not a casual friendly thing.

How many casuals have a 3.0 top geared crafter/gatherer, lvl 58 battle class and enough time to farm all the Favour mats, crafter hand in mats, gatherer red scripts items?

Back on the previous points
210 is still alexander savage. 200 may be upgraded, but it's still alexander savage loot. A large amount of the player base will not be running around in full 210 anytime soon.
Later accessory additions means hey, crafting will be even more relevant. +points
I said you can be an omnicrafter. Whether that remains true for 3 stars (Which most of the doomsday threads were pointing towards) remains to be seen.
Choosing between mats and gear is a matter of power vs cost* efficiency. You want the best? Pay up. You want something to get by cheap? Save up. It's the option between 'BiS' and 'Good enough'. (Again, casual friendly thing)

Your previous point are still wrong, the fact you can't admit this when clearly shows tells us a lot...

The previous tome gear was also upgraded from coil drops (i.e. Alex savage is the new coil), so it's still a 30ilvl difference vs 20ilvl difference from before, suspect the tome upgrade items will soon be added to hunt seals like before too. The difference between raid drops and crafted is also 30ilvl now and 20ilvl previously.

Later accessories will also be moot if they are cost prohibitive to make, as looks like people will need all their scrips for craft/gathing gears for a long time to come.

Choosing between mats and gear is a matter of power vs cost* efficiency. You want the best? Pay up. You want something to get by cheap? Save up. It's the option between 'BiS' and 'Good enough'. (Again, casual friendly thing)

The problem is it's not worth it as the prices items would need to be, I don't mind paying a lot of something, but it has to be somewhat *Worth* it. The i180 battle gear is a slight temporary upgrade and each part is going to be 10's of millions per part.

Even rich players are not that stupid, but who knows maybe RMT players are...

[Kabooa]

Snip

Fair enough; I was wrong about accessories.

You're literally nitpicking a technicality on the others.

It's casual because you have -7 days a week- to do this. The gathering sucks, sure, but it only takes a few minutes to turn to your gatherer, save up the GP, fly to the node, get your collectibles. It, collectively, takes 1-2 hours out of whatever playtime you have for the week, spread out over 7 days and in between your other activities.

Crafting, if you're at least patrician geared eco-melded (not penta melded), and you already have your materials and have a suitable craft, takes an hour. Literally an hour. I did it, and I 'don't know what I'm talking about', so clearly other people should be able to do it -faster-.

Both sets of gear, also, is much cheaper if you work a deal with a crafter to supply mats instead of buying it outright.

You don't need red scrip gear to gather anything right now. Unless they literally add 2star gathering next week (or within the next 5, I suppose), you're safe to put aside red scrips to gather and some to buy gear when you want. It's not one or the other.

And the item is worth what people will pay for it. Which means the materials that make it will need to conform to that to make the craft profitable. This occurs over time. Not in a day.

[scarebearz]

Crafting, if you're at least patrician geared eco-melded (not penta melded), and you already have your materials and have a suitable craft, takes an hour. Literally an hour. I did it, and I 'don't know what I'm talking about', so clearly other people should be able to do it -faster-

If you re-read my post you'll see I mentioned the time required to farm the mats for the crafter hand-ins.

As I doubt a "casual" player is going to go and buy all the mats/pre-made mats off the MB (pretty expencive for a casual player).

So even the crafting side is a considerable time or gil investment for a "casual" player.

And it bears repeating: Dont compare i70 with anything after 2.1+, it was release and way more time was needed until enough people leveld their crafts to be able to craft one star besides the 1% that was racing to get there.

Because you make an excellent point about the state of a 'new' system that you should really, really reflect upon.

The crafts were introduced in 3.05, not 3.0, that 1% is already max lvl, the racing is over but now the high-end crafters are left twiedling our thumbs.

[Kabooa]

If you re-read my post you'll see I mentioned the time required to farm the mats for the crafter hand-ins.

As I doubt a "casual" player is going to go and buy all the mats/pre-made mats off the MB (pretty expencive for a casual player).

So even the crafting side is a considerable time or gil investment for a "casual" player.

This is a fair point. I had the benefit of finding mining therapeutic and having the level 58 accessory market to myself for the better part of 2 weeks. In short, I have not only an excess of goldsmith materials but more than enough gil to fill in what I need to. I'm also an alchemist, so that only makes things easier for me.

Not everyone has that advantage.

At worst, they choose not to participate. Most likely, it just means they don't cap each week.

Hardly the end of the world.