Why do you need to put crafters' gears being seperate again?

[MN_14]

On a related note, wasn't the point of Specialization that you could do endgame crafting for one class without leveling/melding every class?

It's pretty ironic, but yes. The goal of the developers has always been about making crafting more accessible for new players and this includes improving their chances of selling items on the market. On paper, requiring high level components from other DOH/DOL promotes cooperation, but it isn't working out in practice.

I believe that the changes in 2.4 were meant to achieve the same thing. Only at that time, the "solution" to the accessibility issue was to make omni-crafting easier, so they introduced shared BIS gear that had low meld caps and extra meld slots. That didn't work so we're seeing these changes now.

[Nyalia]

The way that SE has chosen to force players to focus on a small set of classes while allowing them to level every class is to gate endgame gear behind time-limited tokens. This method is what they've been using for combat classes from the beginning. In 3.0, they decided to try to apply the same gating mechanic to crafter (and gatherer) classes to force people to only gear up one class at a time. This is all okay. It's in line with what they've been doing for DoW/DoMs, and it makes all classes consistent, but different.

But, there are no daily bonuses for crafters. There are no options other than the turn-ins, which vary so widely in material costs, that it's pure RNG if you'll ever get a cheap one. Most take ~5 endgame materials, but then there's Bladed Steel Jig, which can show up as an option, and only takes 1 endgame material (1x Adamantite Nugget, 1x Cloud Mica Whetstone). With the current implementation, the only way to grind up red scrips in a cost effective manner is to get every class to 60 to increase the chances that you will get a cheap recipe as a turn-in request.

What we have is the equivalent of them having esoterics drop only from one specific dungeon, and that dungeon or trial changes every day. No esoterics in roulettes, nothing from PvP, nothing from maps or any of the other places you can get them. It's just one, specific dungeon or trial, unique to each player. So, today, maybe you have to grind Bismark Ex, with no options to get esoterics from anywhere else. Maybe to continue the analogy, each of your classes has a different specific dungeon that gives esoterics, but only if they are level 60 in that class. Would that be fun and workable? If so, why do we get daily bonuses for a variety of things as well as rewards from ALL options instead of just one specific one?


What SE could do to make red scrips more in line with the DoW/DoM tomestones is to give a daily bonus of 40 red scrips for your first turnin. That encourages you to do it every day instead of finding the cheapest item on any class (you hope) for the week and crafting/turning in all 45 items at once.

Next, they could increase the number of items you can turn in by one more per class so you have a much greater chance of getting a reasonable recipe.

And lastly, they could actually evaluate their recipes for difficulty and give more for recipes that have more ingredients. Or they could just switch the turnins to base materials instead so you don't need to be an omnicrafter to make them, but that'll never happen.

I'm writing a function into my desynth database spreadsheet to calculate collectable costs to find the cheapest one. I just need to get the rest of the Master Book IIIs (I've been slacking) so I can see which items can show up as options to turn in, or SE needs to update Lodestone with the 3.05 data (it currently doesn't mark Red Scrip turnins, but does mark Blue ones).

When I ran that calculation for Blue scrips, last I checked, Dragon Fang Earrings were 500 gil per scrip, Goblin Jigs were 800 gil per scrip, and everything in WVR was 2,000 to 4,000 gil per scrip. There was one LTW item that was 1,000, and the rest were 2,000+.

[CGMidlander]

I'm convinced SE doesn't have a darn clue what they're doing with crafting/gathering ATM. Lol

[Bishop81]

On paper, requiring high level components from other DOH/DOL promotes cooperation, but it isn't working out in practice.

An interesting question is, "Why?".

[Lemuria]

Specialization is to promote cooperation with others to achieve your crafting goals instead of everyone just omni-crafting in a similar sense to how FC crafting has now done the same

Um... specialization just gives you a couple of unique skills. It does nothing else. The recipes themselves actually work AGAINST cooperation, because of how much effort goes into making them. You'd need to be either extremely wealthy to be able to buy most of the components for a single craft, or gather and craft it yourself. So, in effect the current system promotes omni-crafting.

And the specialist skills SUCK. They're worthless. You're genuinely better off having every craft available to you and using CC abilities rather than relying on whistles and other rubbish that you're granted through specialization. I have weaver, blacksmith and goldsmith as my specialists and I rarely ever use those skills because of how situational they are.

If recipes are added which only specialists can craft, it might have more weight, but right now it's a pretty weak system.

..or you could sit there and think I saved millions by not having to buy it. You can be a pessimist or an optimist.

Or you could be a realist. If you're making the same gil selling the ingredients that you would make for the finished goods, sometimes it's better to cut out the middle man. You'd earn twice the gil in half the time because crafting takes time. More realistically, and what we're currently seeing, is finished goods selling for far less than the sum of their parts. The rare exceptions being highly coveted items, which usually require insanely rare ingredients to make anyway.

Right now, scrips are pretty expensive to obtain. The materials that go into obtaining just a small handful are worth a tidy fortune, and in some cases the recipe even requires scrip materials to craft in some cruel ironic twist. Even with a maxed out hand-in, you can expect only around 30 scrips at best. Which means you'd need at least 12 for any given recipe book. There are also some crafts which are cheaper to obtain scrips on than others, which only reinforces the idea that players should have every craft leveled so they can best obtain them without going bankrupt.

[MN_14]

An interesting question is, "Why?".

The problem is the current condition of the economy as well as the userbase. Drop rates are low, so prices for these materials tend to be high. A new crafter would have to find a way of financing all those materials to level their class and obtain scrips. Unless the economy is overhauled, this seems like a bigger hassle than leveling all of your classes to 50. You'd need the capability of earning millions quickly in order to spend millions to level/progress.

Most endgame crafters also have all classes at 50, so selling your own HQ items to raise enough gil for HQ components from other classes will be tough. If they can already produce the materials themselves, they won't participate in the game of trading those basic materials on the mb. I don't see this changing without drop rate adjustments and an entire new army of specialists entering the fray.

[BonzaiFerroni]

An interesting question is, "Why?".

I'm not sure why people are so ready to declare the current system broken, there hasn't been any time for the market to adjust to the new mats. I don't know why it seems like it isn't "working out in practice."

In the past, there has always been a healthy market for materials from all jobs. If you are a BSM and you need lumber for your recipe, you can count on being able to find that on the marketboard. For the vast majority of items, the value of what you are making is higher than the cost of all of the mats combined, including the ones you may have had to purchase. I'm not sure what other criteria you need to judge the system a success/failure. I believe this because I got to the point where I was rarely even making my own materials any more, just crafting the end-item.

Things will always be a bit trickier with the latest gear/materials, but most of the time it ends up being very workable system. Even if the mats that you need to buy are expensive, keep in mind that you also have the ability to sell materials. It isn't as simple as making it all yourself, but it is definitely possible.

The big limitation for non-omnicrafters before were the cross-class skills that you needed if you wanted to craft using NQ mats. I haven't picked a specialist job but it sounds like the skills are fairly potent, so if that limitation is eased then it is definitely more viable.

[Edewen]

Before the expansion, I leveled my crafters up to 50 in preparation for the future. With this insanity. That was a waste of time. If you want a weekly gate, fine. Put in on materials/favors ect. But to also gate the gear instead of having to put in actual work for the gear is ridiculous.

Crafters could very easily been given a quest chain to "craft" their blue gear based on bringing in rare hq materials. Same with gatherers. This is pure lazyness. You spent all this time and math to figure out if you could gate one class for 3 months and didn't stop to think whether you should. Crafting is not battle classes. Gathering is not Battle classes. Omni was a good thing. Completely killed my interest in a huge aspect of this game.

[Bishop81]

Drop rates are low, so prices for these materials tend to be high.

I don't see how that will break the economy.

High prices will normally cause an increase in supply until it comes down. If supply stays low due to natural scarcity then everyone is in the same boat - could be intentional on SE's part; you can only afford to level one DoH.

[Synestra]

Before melding, the i180 chest has 5 more control and 14 more craftsmanship than the HQ i170. I wonder what the meld caps are...

I also got the feeling that both sets might end being the same stat vise, other takes time and another dedication or gil but the end result is same.