Astro in savage

[Sidra]

This thread is kind of funny.
"AST are too weak, I can't clear A1 Savage!"
- pic of AST beating A1 Savage
"Well, That was WHM and AST - it can't be done with a SCH combo it just doesn't have the healing oomph to hand it"
-pic of AST/SCH clearing A1S
"Well, uh, it is still too weak!"

One thing I'd like to add in a WHM/AST combo in terms of DPS - an AST can DPS too - from a single target perspective it really isn't that far off from SCH.

[RichardButte]

This thread is kind of funny.
"AST are too weak, I can't clear A1 Savage!"

I think it's more along the lines of "It's hard to clear AS1 with an AST but SCH/WHM rolls right through it".

And that's definitely a problem, especially when the whole point of AST is that we're supposed to boost DPS enough to compensate for our lack of emergency healing and that's certainly not the case if the DPS boost from an AST is comparable to just having a WHM/SCH combo instead.

[Calib0s]

Astro is capable of healing any content in the game. They are also objectively the worst healer.

These facts aren't mutually exclusive.

[RichardButte]

Astro is capable of healing any content in the game. They are also objectively the worst healer.

These facts aren't mutually exclusive.

Agreed.

The real issue isn't that AST can't do it but that WHM/SCH can do it so much better.

If that's the case, WHY are you bringing an AST along at all?

Again, I WANT to main this class, but I want to do so without making my FC mates hate me for insisting upon bringing a knife to a gun fight.

[Sidra]

I think it's more along the lines of "It's hard to clear AS1 with an AST but SCH/WHM rolls right through it".

And that's definitely a problem.

Here's the thing though - no one is really rolling through A1S yet, even with WHM/SCH. For every clear video you see, there's 100+ groups failing you don't see. It's hard to clear it with any combo, and right now only the best players are clearing it with any combination of jobs.

[GeekMatt]

AST feels like a fairly unique healer. The lower potencies are a big part of that, IMO, alongside the use of cards. It's additional abilities like Disable, Lightspeed, and Synergy are all skills I enjoy and serve a practical use, however when the damage is too much, they just come off as lacklustre in the sense that they rarely make up for our lower potencies when comparing to other healers.

AST is a completely viable healer on it's own and it's support is great, but when standing next to a WHM or SCH, you feel small in respect to the role you play. I've considered some things to help AST, but there's too many things to consider. To continue feeling like an AST, I don't want straight potency like a WHM, or a Crit affect like Galvanize. I'd like another button or two for managing heavy AoE, particularly reactive ones (though I favour proactive play style by nature) because when my AoEs don't allow me to bounce back, it feels like a very straight-forward "I wasn't potent enough and I had no other options". One thing I was considering was a skill to repeat the previous ability played, instantly.

Another (proactive) was to funnel a % of raid-wide damage to a tank (up to a % of his hp). I could follow this up with Essential Dignity or Benifect II, so instead of offering a higher potency AoE, this would mean I have to Heal just as much as I would normally, but I have the option of utilizing a single target heal to compensate for my lack of AoE potential. I really like this option except I'm not sure it coincides with the personality of AST, and I imagine it would get misused to result in the death if a tank.

The counter alternative would be to funnel a single target heal to multiple players somehow. Could be reasonable with Essential dignity because the cd would prevent my single target potential temporarily, which would help even it out. Possibly sticking to the concept of more damage resulting in more heals--where the targets in the most danger reap the most benefit.

[RichardButte]

Here's the thing though - no one is really rolling through A1S yet, even with WHM/SCH. For every clear video you see, there's 100+ groups failing you don't see. It's hard to clear it with any combo, and right now only the best players are clearing it with any combination of jobs.

From earlier in this thread:

I tried.. i really tried... just attempted with ast/sch, and we just could not get off enough aoe healing and topping people off for the double preys.. faust was a pain healing through as well. tanks died so much for us at 6% with ast healing and mild sch dps.. Switched back to sch/whm, one shot faust, i didn't even have to cast a single heal with me back on sch. boss himself went a lot better as well to heal through. i... really tried... and i'm so upset i'm going back to sch </3

Easy answer.

We had a dps low geared for Faust, going AST/WHM resulted in the Enrage.

I switched to WHM/WHM, resulted in a kill.

The effect of the cards are too much irrelevant so what you only compare is dps AST vs dps WHM. Which is actually revelant.

All the content up till now was healable just fine with ast in the group. I think i expected the same for savage, a little difficulty, but not near what i experienced last night. AST healing in savage is ... REALLY close, it can be done, but it's like.. you have hope you make it and nothing goes wrong. AST healing right now is next to impossible for savage and it shouldn't be like that. We should be able to do all content with any combination of healers just as fine as a whm/sch combo. i shouldn't have to be ripping out my hair kuz benefic II spam, lightspeed, ES, bole can just barely keep tanks alive towards end of faust (on most attempts it's not enough), or have to do twice as much aoe healing at whm for all that aoe in A1 attempting to top people off before double prey then bene II spam on prey and ES if i still happen to have it or if i don't need to toss it on my tank> oh crap now i'm out of mp and can't heal through anything else for the rest of the fight... and that's in the first 2 mins... it's shouldn't be like this. I don't see why AST cannot be put to be just has high heals as whm or sch in either sect they pick. We should not have to sacrifice healing and mp just kuz we also have they cards that just tickle... it just... it should be doable with any combination of healers.... SE pls help

I was playing AST before savage launch. He was really fun and okk to good on any content before savage. But his strength falls a lot when we were doing harder content. I was the SCH and I had my partner playing WHM. Our first atempt at Alex Savage went well, we got Faust quickly and we were adjusting to Oppressor. We had to leave duty because of some member rl thing.

After that, we rejoined. Our WHM went as AST. No changes on Faust honestly but when we got to oppressor we were having trouble to adjust heals in some parts that we already had adjusted on SCH+WHM duo, and since AST's healing kit is so simmilar to WHM, maybe this reveals that AST is really lacking on something. Total party damage per second didn't change much, but I can't say if that was AST or our DPSs are still adjusting themselves to the fight. I know I'm still adjusting my stance dance and mana management.

from what i experienced and this is just the first floor

astro with a white mage partner felt just barely maybe doable and everything was in a constant state of emergency
switched to scholar and it all felt pretty smooth and easygoing for healing

the difference was kind of unbelievable

We've seen enough people in this thread who have tried it as AST and then switched to one of the other healers and noticed a substantial difference in difficulty of clearing the encounter (ie it became much easier).

If all other variables are the same and the only change is switching from AST to another healer, then that's our answer: AST isn't good enough. It's not good enough at healing and it's not good enough at boosting party DPS to end the encounter faster, otherwise this wouldn't be the experience these people are having.

[LycorisSelunis]

In all cases of AST clearing so far, were you using diurnal? Have any AST been able to use nocturnal at all in high level play? If no one is using noct even when we 'should' be, then it needs must be looked at.

:/ I really hope for some noct love.... TD/CO are nowhere near as useful extending limited shields than they are with hots, and noct CU is strictly worse than sch sacred soil since we have to stand still (at least diurnal CU now packs a huge punch, if you only get one or two ticks off they are really strong) I really want to be able to use noct sect. WHM/AST combos aside, an AST/AST comp I don't think could possibly be viable with noct as is now since 2 diurnal AST don't stack (also cards are one per target I think? no buff stacking on aoes).

edit-CU peeves me the most. it is a lvl 58 skill that's trumped by a lvl 45. CO at 60 still feels like it needs...SOMETHING.

Personal ideas-
make noct shields into regen-shields. aspect benefic/helios buff would be the duration of refresh, but the shield itself would be the same buff as now. if taking constant dmg, the shields would stay small and refresh. if not taking dmg the shields would stack up to a better potency for future hits. TD/CO can then extend the application buff!

CO-add a constellation-like chain heal. diurnal-increases healing received by targets (like mantra/fey illu) noct-reduces damage taken (similar to bole/ss, separate buff)

CU noct sect- keep dmg reduction as is but add a hp-equalizing effect. damage taken under the bubble is split evenly between party members and total party hp is equalized (like spirit link totem)
CU diurnal might need something else to keep up with that though....

[justinjarjar]

The of the forum was more of there seems to be a lack of players playing through with AST in the first place. Meaning harder to find data for a player (as the dev said they can go through numbers and see how big the differences are), the idea was can AST not only be used in progressive raiding (aka hardest/highest level content to date). the overall theme is that yes it can complete AS1, but SCH/WHM is still feeling more powerful overall. It means that no AST is not complete dirt, but is still slightly behind WHM and SCH in feel. Why? Still not completely sure (Devs will figure it out I am sure) could be numbers or just adjustment to the new class. In no way is this a complaint forum. Sidra I get where you are coming form, but it is important that the community make sure that the Devs get proper information about how we are approaching and feeling about balance. I just wanted to see where people where taking AST and I am happy to see it be used with both partners. Noct Sect is still not used (and I think the patch notes show that SE knows that and will tackle it later). Balance takes time with new variables and I am happy to see the progress that the dev team has taken. Lets keep up peoples reactions to play AST in AS. Pics of clears are also appreciated .

-Kitty OP and happy supporter of AST

[chumsy]

foresaw this coming and once again pushes down the path of: WHM/WHM > WHM/SCH > WHM/AST > SCH/SCH > SCH/AST > AST/AST. Theres simply no reason to take an AST over any of the other two healing classes, unless AST was the only healer available (or maybe in the case of double SCH). The problem lies within how the class functions, its neither a replacement for a WHM or a SCH, therefore its considered the last choice instead of the 3rd option. AST should bring something of equivalent power to the table, as WHM brings powerful AOE heals, SCH with powerful single target; Thus AST should bring equivalent buffs. As of now none of the buffs are equivalent to the healing loss as compared to a WHM/SCH. When will people realize its about bringing something to the table that contributes enough for the loss, in this case healing potency. We dont have to heal as good as the other two classes, but please in the name of Balance, increase the card buffs, even the fairy selene could rival the dps increase AST buffs provide.