This patch dropped the ball hard

[Kaedan94]

It's still seems like a crime that success doesn't always equate to the most enjoyable way to spend ones time.

What you don't seem to grasp is that "enjoyment" and "fun" are subjective. What you consider an "unenjoyable way to spend one's time", others consider enjoyable.

Success is the ONLY metric is which we can objectively measure how "good" the game is.

[Writer]

...I don't understand why anyone thinks casual content should equate raid equipment. This is my first MMO to boot so this isn't some "WoW" baby. I'll never be good enough to raid, but raiders - especially the hardest raid - deserve the best stuff. It's a case of skill and dedication with the occasional "prodigy" doing it. Casual content grind is merely dedication which is monotonous but isn't really difficult because you aren't doing the hard stuff. Grind and waiting is not difficulty, it's monotony. No skill involved beyond "patience" which doesn't test your playing skills.

[Colt47]

What you don't seem to grasp is that "enjoyment" and "fun" are subjective. What you consider an "unenjoyable way to spend one's time", others consider enjoyable.

Success is the ONLY metric is which we can objectively measure how "good" the game is.

We all grasp that what we say and feel are subjective. That is what makes it important to pay attention to and what makes conversation worth engaging in.

[KisaiTenshi]

You know, it feels like the more someone says a person/game series sucks, the more successful it becomes?

That's not actually it.

The loudest barking dogs don't always get fed first, but they are the first to know who's going to feed them.

So over time, the loudest dogs train their handlers to feed them first by going to the right person first.

This is how MMO's work. Lots of people whine and complain on the forums, and people who word things right (usually in the most aggressive tone) generate attention to see if they have merit. As more of this happens, the "hardcore" people start getting pushed out of the game in favor of more casual players that there are more of.

So it's the "hardcore" people who are doing it to themselves. Don't clear content by any-means-necessary, and instead create a strategy that "the casual" people can clear the same content with, that will signal that the content is fun for everyone and more of the content should be produced. Instead of the current system of "lets put hardcore raiders in a box over in the 'savage' corner, let's put PvP'ers in the 'PvP' box somewhere else, and the rest of the content is easy-casual-nonsense.

Like I imagine somewhere at SE, they have decided what the next piece of content is, and are working on the assets for it, but they won't announce it until the existing content is completed by the majority of the players who completed the previous "episode"

[ckc22]

keep the elitiest happy.

Elitists are never happy, its part of being an elitist.

Anyways I'd love eso caps per class, or getting an increase sooner than 6 months from now.

The cap exists so you STAY SUBBED for longer.
You can't remove the cap because everyone will gear up in 1 week at the patch, unsub, complain there is nothing to do, and come back in 3-4 Months and repeat the process,

I don't think you should design your game around people who are clearly not real fans and abandon it at every opportunity. For every person who would gear their one job and quit (most likely while ignoring other content) there's another person that would play more jobs, do more stuff, play other content, etc.

If you removed the cap you could make it much more grindy, double all the costs, halve all the earnings. Hell even implementing a cap/job would be nice.

The whole weekly cap thing just feels exploitative.

...I don't understand why anyone thinks casual content should equate raid equipment. This is my first MMO to boot so this isn't some "WoW" baby. I'll never be good enough to raid, but raiders - especially the hardest raid - deserve the best stuff. It's a case of skill and dedication with the occasional "prodigy" doing it. Casual content grind is merely dedication which is monotonous but isn't really difficult because you aren't doing the hard stuff. Grind and waiting is not difficulty, it's monotony. No skill involved beyond "patience" which doesn't test your playing skills.

I think pretending like all non savage raid content is "casual" is a fallacy in the first place. Having the only important/all gear come from just raids is also a good way to get players to ignore every other piece of content in your game. We're playing an MMORPG not a twitch shooter... the entire thing is about a grind. There's no good reason why viable pieces of gear couldn't come from other things like hardcore crafting/etc.

[Mhikail]

I must be the only one pretty upset because they introduced 'AF2' behind a cap that will take months to get.
I didn't expect this at all. I main AST/PLD/BLM and I have gear them all separate which will take like what? 9 months?
So much for 1 character for all.

Oh well, I guess one of the best looking gears in this game has to be locked behind a 3 month a job run.
Wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have crappy rehash gear all the damn time.
Why even put a JOB outfit behind all of this and not during the job quests is beyond me understandings.

[Colt47]

...

You aren't alone at all. It's just that some people are more vocal on the forums than others, and there are a ton of people who don't even post on the forums because of it. One of the posts I made earlier even references the fact that my complaints about grind at end game and not making it spread out amongst a variety of activities besides dungeons and raiding, appears to be shared by a lot of people within the community.

Again, the issue is that right now the system is unfairly catering to specifically one group of people. That specific group of people gets access to gear to give access to even more content that is being planned out, while the rest are stuck basically one iLvL tier behind. This forces everyone, whether they want to or not, to do the catered parties activities. So really, tieing this in to your comment: It's not the grind that is the problem, it's the lack of variety of ways to get said currency that is the problem.

We need the currency grind spread across gold saucer, crafting, gathering, and even the hunts. And I'm not just talking last gens currency: I mean the entire kit and caboodle. Otherwise we wont get away from at least someone feeling like they are being cornered into doing something for the sake of just doing it, rather than enjoyment. It's not like they can't control how much we are earning from those activities, but even earning a little is better then none at end game status.

The whole point of the system in the end is to reward people playing the game with access to even more content in the game. At least that is what seems to be at the heart of the entire currency grind system idea.

[ZemusM]

I must be the only one pretty upset because they introduced 'AF2' behind a cap that will take months to get.
I didn't expect this at all. I main AST/PLD/BLM and I have gear them all separate which will take like what? 9 months?
So much for 1 character for all.

Oh well, I guess one of the best looking gears in this game has to be locked behind a 3 month a job run.
Wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have crappy rehash gear all the damn time.
Why even put a JOB outfit behind all of this and not during the job quests is beyond me understandings.

I understand what your saying but at the sametime one of the most requested featres by the players was gear that looked more specific at the high end to the class you were playing. They gave us that and now we complain about it.

No matter what a dev does to appease its fans, they will always turn it around on them and they will never be happy. All SE needs to do is look at the revenue that the game brings in. If it dips changes need to be made, if they don't. stay the course and right now they have control until players stop subbing and they arn't

[Reneo]

...I don't understand why anyone thinks casual content should equate raid equipment. This is my first MMO to boot so this isn't some "WoW" baby. I'll never be good enough to raid, but raiders - especially the hardest raid - deserve the best stuff. It's a case of skill and dedication with the occasional "prodigy" doing it. Casual content grind is merely dedication which is monotonous but isn't really difficult because you aren't doing the hard stuff. Grind and waiting is not difficulty, it's monotony. No skill involved beyond "patience" which doesn't test your playing skills.

The raiders that do the hardest content in the game deserve the best gear and so do people who devote alot of time in this game. But the price for doing time is capped.

[ZemusM]

I don't think you should design your game around people who are clearly not real fans and abandon it at every opportunity. For every person who would gear their one job and quit (most likely while ignoring other content) there's another person that would play more jobs, do more stuff, play other content, etc.

If you removed the cap you could make it much more grindy, double all the costs, halve all the earnings. Hell even implementing a cap/job would be nice.

The whole weekly cap thing just feels exploitative.

MMO's are grindy, time consuming, you can't have everything demanded and accessable instantly or no one would sub, the game would fail and go F2P then high end gear would go behind massive paywalls, Thats even worse. But it sounds more like what you want.

While I agree that the tomestone cap should be increased to 500 or 600, you can't go faster than that. It needs to take a good 2 months+ to gear 1 job otherwise people will get bored who play 1 Job (Like Myself) and stop subbing. And the vast majority of MMO players only play 1 class while they juggle OTHER games. If you have the time and devotion to play multiple jobs all the power to you go nuts but most people don't. I don't even like crafting. I have been playing this game since 2.0 launched and am still going and happy. SE is designing this game RIGHT in terms of keeping it ALIVE and viable to have a sub.

This game makes money, some people have gripes about it, but in the grand scheme unless subs start dropping by hundreds of thousands over a quarter this game wont change because people are playing. Where this game succeeds dozens of others which BIGGER BUDGETS have failed on a massive scale which tells everyone in the industry that they are doing something RIGHT.

There are things I don't like about XIV but I don't unsub from it. I never gave Zenimax a dime after the free month of ESO for that trainwreck excuse of a game because they didn't care about the players. It has been so evident that YoshiP listens to the fans of XIV and makes changes and if you disagree, You and I are playing totally different games and you'll just never be happy with this genre.