Unjust Kicking from Alexander T4

[SDaemon]

To be frank, you shouldn't run difficult content for the first time using Duty Finder if you don't research the fight first. If you want to "learn while doing", you should start or join a Party Finder group that is specifically for that purpose.

To be frank, expecting players to research fights before joining through Duty Finder is setting yourself up for disappointment. If you want to establish and set your own standards for the group, that is what Party Finder is for.

[Kaedan]

If you want to establish and set your own standards for the group, that is what Party Finder is for.

This exact same statement (by you) can be used towards those wanting to "learn by doing" and refuse to research.

In fact, the Party Finder has a specific setting called "Learning party", so that implies that those unwilling to research should be the ones using the Party Finder.


It's common courtesy and good manners to at least know what the fight mechanics are before using DF. No one is suggesting you have to be "Pro" or anything like that. Just cursory knowledge of the mechanics... you don't even have to watch a video.

[SDaemon]

It's common courtesy and good manners to at least know what the fight mechanics are before using DF. No one is suggesting you have to be "Pro" or anything like that. Just cursory knowledge of the mechanics... you don't even have to watch a video.

You might consider it common courtesy and good manners. I do not. I am perfectly fine with players going in blind to a DF encounter. I don't expect players to research an encounter before doing it.

When you sign up for a DF you get cast into a pool of random people. If you want to impose expectations onto people than make a PF where you have that level of control. In a DF group, you might be the only one with cursory knowledge of the fight and that is just something you need to go in expecting can happen.

[Kaedan]

You might consider it common courtesy and good manners. I do not. I am perfectly fine with players going in blind to a DF encounter. I don't expect players to research an encounter before doing it.

When you sign up for a DF you get cast into a pool of random people. If you want to impose expectations onto people than make a PF where you have that level of control. In a DF group, you might be the only one with cursory knowledge of the fight and that is just something you need to go in expecting can happen.

The problem is, both you and the people who go in blind after content is well established are the exception, not the rule. And the fact that Party Finder has a specific option for "Learning Party" is a heavy implication that you should use the Party Finder if you don't intend to research the fight beforehand.

It really isn't that hard. Mr. Happy's video guides are usually no more than 5 minutes long, and you can skip half of them since he covers trash as well as bosses (he has skip links to bosses and phases in the corner).

And sorry, common courtesy isn't subjective. At this point, players who haven't done the content are quite obviously the minority. Most everyone has done Alexander at least once by this point. So by not doing any research, you are the weak link. (using royal you, as I don't know your circumstances personally).

I'm not saying I would kick a person just for being new and not bothering to take 3 minutes to look up a fight, but it's just plain rude not to take that 3 minutes to get at least cursory knowledge of the fight. The one exception I can accept is if the player doesn't like to spoil fights and prefers to do them blind and learn... and in that case, that's what the Party Finder is for.

[SDaemon]

Snip

Me? And what makes you think I'm one of the people who go in blind? I learn things with my static before I do it in DF because I enjoy playing and progressing with them. When I go into DF I already know the mechanics, but everyone is not that lucky to have a static they do things with. When I join DF and someone is new, I have no issues explaining mechanics. It takes less time total than it did to type this response.

The "Learning Party" check box implies nothing. It just means that you can now, as it wasn't always there, indicate that the party is a learning party. Whereas before you wrote it out in the text box. (though it is still far more common to just use the text box)

When you join DF you have chosen to group with people who may be completely clueless on the content you signed up for. That is just how it works.

Edit: Actually because it was bugging me. Where is this "Learning Party" option you're mentioning? I wrote that it wasn't always there, assuming you were correct that there is one. But after looking I just don't see it. People have always used the text box to indicate a learning party. Are you by chance talking about the "Newcomers Welcome" check box?

[Klamor]

It's common courtesy and good manners to at least know what the fight mechanics are before using DF.

Common courtesy and good manners... I can't stress this enough. People expect others to at least have an idea of what they're getting into before jumping into something. To put some perspective on it, you have to basically know what you're doing before you can be licensed to drive on public streets. You have to have knowledge both academic and practical, before you're allowed to perform a trade. Taking this "it's just a game" mindset and warping everything to suit your own needs and basically saying "fuck you" to anyone else that's come before you is just as disrespectful.

Putting it back in line; yes, this is just a game. But you're here with other, real-live human beings on the other side of those pixels. Just as you wouldn't jump into a sport without having first reviewed at least a rulebook of the game, don't just expect the people around you to hold your hand and guide you from the hazards that will surely result in your (pixel-y) death. A person way back in this thread said that only "bad" players need to look at a guide... (metaphor alert) well, I really hope you don't live anywhere near me, and that hopefully you haven't killed anyone since you probably didn't read your driver's handbook before you jumped behind the wheel. (/end metaphor)

[MeiUshu]

[QUOTE=Klamor;3165721]Common courtesy and good manners... I can't stress this enough. People expect others to at least have an idea of what they're getting into before jumping into something. To put some perspective on it, you have to basically know what you're doing before you can be licensed to drive on public streets.

But in order to pass the exam to get a driving licence, you take driving lessons with someone sitting near you and bringing you along by hours of teaching. I hope you dont say that in order to take a driving licence you need to look up a site and when you are a pro in that you can take the driving test right ?

I think your example goes towards those that say you need to be taught and not just read....eh?

Just me though....this is a sterile conversation as it is..pointless....some feel their god ways give them all the rights ..nothing you or me can do about it just hope for the best and move on.

Mei

[Sapphic]

But in order to pass the exam to get a driving licence, you take driving lessons with someone sitting near you and bringing you along by hours of teaching. I hope you dont say that in order to take a driving licence you need to look up a site and when you are a pro in that you can take the driving test right ?

But you have to pay for instructors to teach you to drive. You wouldn't hitchhike a lift and then expect the driver to teach you how to drive.....

[Klamor]

But in order to pass the exam to get a driving licence, you take driving lessons with someone sitting near you and bringing you along by hours of teaching. I hope you dont say that in order to take a driving licence you need to look up a site and when you are a pro in that you can take the driving test right ?

My point being, that you have to have learned how to do something before you can just go and do it, and going into to something without having some idea of what you're getting into is unwise. That applies to everyday life, or you end up in places you won't want to be.

But you have to pay for instructors to teach you to drive. You wouldn't hitchhike a lift and then expect the driver to teach you how to drive.....

That's basically it. Nobody is looking for hitchhikers here.

[Assirra]

But in order to pass the exam to get a driving licence, you take driving lessons with someone sitting near you and bringing you along by hours of teaching. I hope you dont say that in order to take a driving licence you need to look up a site and when you are a pro in that you can take the driving test right ?

I think your example goes towards those that say you need to be taught and not just read....eh?

Just me though....this is a sterile conversation as it is..pointless....some feel their god ways give them all the rights ..nothing you or me can do about it just hope for the best and move on.

Mei

So you randomly jump in someone's car and start trying to drive and yell at them for being elitist when refusing to?
Not to mention you already should know the theory at this point so yea, you did read. Unless you jump into a car without knowing the basic theory, then i hope i never cross you on the road while "learning to drive".
This is a stupid example to begin with, but you digging yourself a hole here.