Machinist superior then bards?

[Galdous]

With the changes that came a few days ago to gauss and Wanderer Min it is putting bards in a more stationary position but Machinist are still able to keep most of its mobility via procs and rapid fire. Should bards get a slight change to prevent them from losing so much mobility vs machinist now? Along with our instant cast of our utility tp/mana regeneration abilities it also puts a larger disparity against the bard having to stop to sing the song losing even more dps.

[OPneedNerfs]

The only fix required is to allow bloodletters/oGCDs to be used during "cast" in WM.

[Ephier]

Just said in another post that BRD proc rate for straight shot should go up to 50% or so for mobility purposes, and maybe add a chance to proc straight shot with empyreal arrow.

[pandabearcat]

No chance of losing BL if you use it during the oGCD window. This is not a valid complaint.

[RiceisNice]

Just said in another post that BRD proc rate for straight shot should go up to 50% or so for mobility purposes, and maybe add a chance to proc straight shot with empyreal arrow.

You're still going to waste a straighter shot proc unless you either have an oGCD ready, or you delay your next weapon skill cast.

No chance of losing BL if you use it during the oGCD window. This is not a valid complaint.

It's lost when it refreshes twice during a cast, and then you're losing either cast time for your next weaponskill if it refreshes right after a BL or another oGCD (which you have plenty of mind you) if you try to double it up inbetween the GCDs.

That being said, MCH gameplay definitely flows better; they don't trip on cast times like BRD. They more or less play the same anyway since their overalll damage output is designed around using WM/GB when you can. Movement for either classes isn't that big of a deal since you can just turn it off anyway if it comes to it.

Bard has a more reliable burst regen in form of battle voice, MCH's eqvuilnant is hypercharge.... which is their dps cooldown. MCH can't hold onto hypercharge for emergencies without suffering dps loss.

[Ephier]

You're still going to waste a straighter shot proc unless you either have an oGCD ready, or you delay your next weapon skill cast.



It's lost when it refreshes twice during a cast, and then you're losing either cast time for your next weaponskill if it refreshes right after a BL or another oGCD (which you have plenty of mind you) if you try to double it up inbetween the GCDs.

How is it a waste? You get instant cast, 2s~ of mobility and the ability to double pop.

[RiceisNice]

How is it a waste? You get instant cast, 2s~ of mobility and the ability to double pop.

The buff for straighter shot doesn't appear until either 1) The animation for heavy shot finishes or 2) You cancel the animation on heavy shot with an oGCD. It wasn't as bad before because you had 2.5 GCD with instant cast. Now you have a 1.5 cast in that GCD, meaning your animation doesn't start until you're 1.5 seconds into the GCD. Same if you try to refresh straight shot's buff when it runs out and you gain the instant shot proc from your previous heavy shot. It's like firestarter, except you can also have problems with the latter since SS is part of your prioirty cycle outside of "use when proceed".

MCH doesn't even have this problem for split shot procs because their animation is pretty damn short that it works even with 1 GCD. It just screams terrible design, and it's one of the reasons why I can not get used to playing BLM; it's utterly infuriating to see firestarters/straightershot buffs scroll down my SCT in the middle of my heavyshot/fire I, and then see another one scroll down.

[LunarEmerald]

Machinist does have several advantages

More procs and all their procs are instant cast
Gauss Round is instant cast when Empyreal Arrow isn't
Rapid Fire makes their 3 next shots instant cast
Don't have to reposition yourself to help recover MP or TP
More Crowd Control. Heavy, knock back, stun
Better burst damage thanks to rapid fire and wildfire.

[Ephier]

Machinist does have several advantages

Disagree.

More procs and all their procs are instant cast

agreed

Gauss Round is instant cast when Empyreal Arrow isn't.

Gauss round has a higher cool down which does not scale with skill speed. Empyreal arrow cooldown goes down the more SS you have.

Rapid Fire makes their 3 next shots instant cast.

You have barrage and the ability to que it up with a 220 potency skill.

Don't have to reposition yourself to help recover MP or TP

Song vs Promote advantages are meh, we have instant stationary TP/MP regen, while you have mobile TP/MP regen and foes on demand.

More Crowd Control. Heavy, knock back, stun.

Agreed.

[SovereignAegis]

As someone who is leveling Bard after getting 60 MCH let me explain some of my feelings:

Bard advantages:
-Stronger DoT effects, they get two DoTs that I find super effective and that in my opinion invalidate the 80 "potency" turret that the MCH gets. Because their DoT's scale with WM + buffs and while needing upkeep the fact that they are affected even by WM alone as well as their damage amp traits shoves their potency even further. Plus they are not affected by radius/range as much at all.

-I lost count at how many times a turret I would place down would be thrown away and invalidated and with a 10s cooldown if it breaks or is moved then it's done.
This includes the movements of white mages/etc. It is a very VERY manual process and one I find frustrating in high mobility/ENEMY KNOCKBACKS/PUSH AWAY situations. A Bard would dominate here because they can move with their song/their DoT's don't even have a range issue in the same way whatsoever.

-Bards get MANY MANY MORE procs with bloodletter and their execute. "It's only 12s and mch is only 30s you crybaby". In practice that it a LOT more. LOTS more. I can hardly believe anyone would trivialize this because in practice I can get tons more damage off through these skills being so widely available. I understand silentshot is similar to bloodletter but at the cost of only being 2/3rds the potency and having a static cooldown timer opposed to one that can proc even more and thus is used significantly more.

-Bards get Foe's requiem which is it's own unique skill and is significantly more impactful than MCH's turret "damage amp" abilities. It is also on demand, with no ties / worries to other skills aside from your MP consumption.
However lets be serious, if you're trying to do an AoE heavy dungeon then a Bard's Foe's requiem >>>>>>>>>> mana song and the damage amplification spread over that many targets is a HUGE deal and makes them superb in a magic-heavy party.

-Bard's have a SEPARATION on their "increase enemy damage taken" abilities and their "double manasong" buff, it can be irritating as all hell as a MCH to want to increase damage taken but you don't use that purely based upon the fact that you do not bloody desire to leave your healers screwed out of mana.

-I personally think iron jaws, emp arrow and sidewinder are FANTASTIC skills. However Bard is with heavy shot/straight shot even more burdened by WM than MCH is with Gauss.