Machinist superior then bards?

[LunarEmerald]

Machinist does have several advantages

More procs and all their procs are instant cast
Gauss Round is instant cast when Empyreal Arrow isn't
Rapid Fire makes their 3 next shots instant cast
Don't have to reposition yourself to help recover MP or TP
More Crowd Control. Heavy, knock back, stun
Better burst damage thanks to rapid fire and wildfire.

[Ephier]

Machinist does have several advantages

Disagree.

More procs and all their procs are instant cast

agreed

Gauss Round is instant cast when Empyreal Arrow isn't.

Gauss round has a higher cool down which does not scale with skill speed. Empyreal arrow cooldown goes down the more SS you have.

Rapid Fire makes their 3 next shots instant cast.

You have barrage and the ability to que it up with a 220 potency skill.

Don't have to reposition yourself to help recover MP or TP

Song vs Promote advantages are meh, we have instant stationary TP/MP regen, while you have mobile TP/MP regen and foes on demand.

More Crowd Control. Heavy, knock back, stun.

Agreed.

[mb52139]

Disagree.

agreed

Gauss round has a higher cool down which does not scale with skill speed. Empyreal arrow cooldown goes down the more SS you have.

You have barrage and the ability to que it up with a 220 potency skill.

Song vs Promote advantages are meh, we have instant stationary TP/MP regen, while you have mobile TP/MP regen and foes on demand.

Agreed.

Its odd how you disagree that MCH has several advantages, then agree to several advantages.

[RiceisNice]

Its odd how you disagree that MCH has several advantages, then agree to several advantages.

Not like having heavy/bind means jack shit since most dungeon/raid mobs are immune to CC. Sure MCH has more utility, but it doesn't mean they're necessarily useful.

[mb52139]

Not like having heavy/bind means jack shit since most dungeon/raid mobs are immune to CC. Sure MCH has more utility, but it doesn't mean they're necessarily useful.

Doesn't really matter to my pointing out the oddness of Ephier's statement. One cannot disagee on a point, then agree to it in the same post XD

[SovereignAegis]

As someone who is leveling Bard after getting 60 MCH let me explain some of my feelings:

Bard advantages:
-Stronger DoT effects, they get two DoTs that I find super effective and that in my opinion invalidate the 80 "potency" turret that the MCH gets. Because their DoT's scale with WM + buffs and while needing upkeep the fact that they are affected even by WM alone as well as their damage amp traits shoves their potency even further. Plus they are not affected by radius/range as much at all.

-I lost count at how many times a turret I would place down would be thrown away and invalidated and with a 10s cooldown if it breaks or is moved then it's done.
This includes the movements of white mages/etc. It is a very VERY manual process and one I find frustrating in high mobility/ENEMY KNOCKBACKS/PUSH AWAY situations. A Bard would dominate here because they can move with their song/their DoT's don't even have a range issue in the same way whatsoever.

-Bards get MANY MANY MORE procs with bloodletter and their execute. "It's only 12s and mch is only 30s you crybaby". In practice that it a LOT more. LOTS more. I can hardly believe anyone would trivialize this because in practice I can get tons more damage off through these skills being so widely available. I understand silentshot is similar to bloodletter but at the cost of only being 2/3rds the potency and having a static cooldown timer opposed to one that can proc even more and thus is used significantly more.

-Bards get Foe's requiem which is it's own unique skill and is significantly more impactful than MCH's turret "damage amp" abilities. It is also on demand, with no ties / worries to other skills aside from your MP consumption.
However lets be serious, if you're trying to do an AoE heavy dungeon then a Bard's Foe's requiem >>>>>>>>>> mana song and the damage amplification spread over that many targets is a HUGE deal and makes them superb in a magic-heavy party.

-Bard's have a SEPARATION on their "increase enemy damage taken" abilities and their "double manasong" buff, it can be irritating as all hell as a MCH to want to increase damage taken but you don't use that purely based upon the fact that you do not bloody desire to leave your healers screwed out of mana.

-I personally think iron jaws, emp arrow and sidewinder are FANTASTIC skills. However Bard is with heavy shot/straight shot even more burdened by WM than MCH is with Gauss.

[RubenSnizzle]

MCH is still garbage buddy.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

MCH is still garbage buddy.

Yeah, bad ones who don't play the job right are. The rest of us are doing fine, thanks.

[Odowla]

MCH is still garbage buddy.

>1.1k sustained

smn does 1.1k sustained

"garbage"

[Odowla]

You have time.. seriously, don't mash your heavy shot. you can hit the procs fine. MCH casts and procs are exactly the same.