Why can't DRGs do their positionals? Live Letter Answer lol

[Mutemutt]

C) the two new positonals are exact copies of each other, down to the description, the only difference being that one is rear one is flank, it's completely redundant and add's absolutely nothing but complexity simply for the sake of complexity.

As far as I can tell, it serves the purpose of making drg more engaging to play.

I really wondering what you're actually trying to say with this "complexity simply for the sake of complexity". When you really look at things, there's only one thing you're out to do: defeat the enemy before they defeat you.Couldn't you effectively combine most of your attacks into just one button and call it the attack button?

[Arienal]

Couldn't you effectively combine most of your attacks into just one button and call it the attack button?

No..no you could not, that makes absolutely no sense. an overall goal, such as 'DDs kill things' and 'healers stop people from dieing' etc is a role, not a method of combat..im struggling to see how you came up with the idea.
Difficulty is not a problem. by all means, make a job more difficult and in depth, but throwing in redundant skills does nothing for the job, increased difficulty needs a high reward for fulfilling it, as it stands there's nothing you gain from WT that you didnt gain from FnC, you could proc nothing but FnC in an entire fight and your damage would be no different, assuming you hit all your positionals.

[Theodric]

It's not that it's difficult - though to be fair, what is and what isn't 'difficult' is completely subjective - it's that the current system is pretty clunky since the abilities proc at random after a successful combo and there's no real guarantee that you can ever get behind or flank an enemy at a particular time on many fights given all the AoE to watch out for.

[Superskull85]

"Monks have to deal with this, so DRGs should learn to deal with it too."

But why? Why do all jobs have to play the same? It's so boring. How about DRG has it's own unique playstyle? Let monk be the positional class. This notion that all the jobs have to play the same or similar makes everything so boring.

Buff 1, Buff 2, Dots, rotation, rotation, refresh dots, rotation, rotation, refresh buffs, refresh dots, rotation, rotation. zzZZZzzzZZz

All 3 jobs already are unique except when buffing. All jobs start with a buff. Beyond that though the rotations are different

Monk - BUff -> DoT -> Strike -> Buff -> Strike -> Dot -> Buff -> Strike -> Strike -> Repeat

Dragoon - Buff -> DoT -> Strike -> Strike -> Repeat

Ninja -> Buff -> DoT -> Strike -> Repeat

This is an over generalization using combos only (it becomes more unique with standalone buffs and DoTs) but from a "buff, DoT, rotation" standpoint you can't say they are the same. Positionals have no impact on how each of them structure their attacks all that much. They are unique in how they weave their attacks.

Melee has really always been about rotation between 2-3 main combos and a standalone DoT with some form off GCD weaved in. This is even true for tanks. So you really can't blame people for wanting the classes to be more similar in terms of positionals too.

[Arkista]

It's not that it's difficult - though to be fair, what is and what isn't 'difficult' is completely subjective - it's that the current system is pretty clunky since the abilities proc at random after a successful combo and there's no real guarantee that you can ever get behind or flank an enemy at a particular time on many fights given all the AoE to watch out for.

I'll agree with you on the random proc. But there is no guarantee that any job can get into position, when there are AoEs or other hazards to look out for. I don't know why Yoshida is looking at DRG and acting like they have it the worst out of the melee classes. You either hit your positional or you don't, move along and continue.

Want to make a job adjustment in 3.05? Change Fang and Claw to proc after Full Thrust Combo, and Wheeling Thrust to proc after Chaos Thrust Combo. Keep the Positions, just take the RNG out of it. If 4 positionals are too much work and difficult, then I think people should go play a ranged dps or nin.

[Arienal]

If 4 positionals are too much work and difficult, then I think people should go play a ranged dps or nin.

It's not really a matter of 'too many positionals', drg's have always had to deal with it, but this is a relapse to the same problem from 2.0, the penalty for missing a positional is absurd. Certainly if a positional is missed due to player error then oh well, practice more and learn the fight a little more to be a bit better next time. But there's so much in this game that takes it out of the player's hands, spinning bosses that throw attacks at random players, persistent ground AoE that makes getting a positional dangerous or downright impossible, the list goes on. When mechanics force you to lose your positional and that costs you 2/3 of your damage because of something that is completely out of the player's hands, THAT is the problem.

[KamikazeMan]

They should just lower their overall dps and make DRGs only have to attack from the back while adding some more debuffs to increase the dps of other jobs. It's clear that DRG is a newbie magnet (no offense to the good DRGs out there), so may as well keep that job easy to play and let other benefit from it. Maybe in 4.0 they can introduce a job that plays the way DRG was supposed to play. Since it's clear that SE nerfs the complexity of that job and buffs it on a moment's notice, but doesn't give other jobs the same treatment.

[siverstorm]

I have not leveled my Dragoon yet, but assuming it procs off a previous skillhit, would you not have nearly 2 seconds to move into position?

You do and its incredibly easy to manage. The only issue is if a jump comes off CD you should hit your 4th combo hit before using it else risk getting animation locked mid-GCD in the wrong spot, very minor issue which is more or less a non-issue if you know what you're doing.

The proc thing is a minor annoyance but not "end of the world" annoying, you can use literally any other oGCD if you have one up.

Though all the salt in this thread is quite hilariously real. I could've sworn the reason they mentioned it was on fights where you can't guarantee the positional (t11 and ravana for example) then saying it was too punishing (frankly it is a ridiculous potency loss but it hasn't been throwing me at the bottom of dps charts because of it).

EDIT: Though the buff in the end does make me happy when dealing with your average "spin to win" DF tank.

[Arienal]

They should just lower their overall dps and make DRGs only have to attack from the back while adding some more debuffs to increase the dps of other jobs.

I'm all for damage resistant debuffs, would like to see WT for example lower blunt resist while itself dealing a bit less damage, such as capping at 200 potency or something as that would at least make the ability unique, but i have to disagree with making everything rear-based, thats a recipe for disaster considering how many tail conal attacks this game has and how much running around the melee do.

[Mutemutt]

No..no you could not, that makes absolutely no sense. an overall goal, such as 'DDs kill things' and 'healers stop people from dieing' etc is a role, not a method of combat..im struggling to see how you came up with the idea.
Difficulty is not a problem. by all means, make a job more difficult and in depth, but throwing in redundant skills does nothing for the job, increased difficulty needs a high reward for fulfilling it, as it stands there's nothing you gain from WT that you didnt gain from FnC, you could proc nothing but FnC in an entire fight and your damage would be no different, assuming you hit all your positionals.

Really? I see no reason for heavy thrust's purpose besides doing more damage. Why have a 3 part combo for dealing damage? Why have any positionals at all? Just seems like extra hoops to jump through.

Oh wait I see what's going on; I'm looking at the skills as sort of a pair and you're looking at them as separate and completely different (or wishing they were, I suppose). But I'm quite alright with how it is now, because I feel it does fulfill its purpose and really adds to the class as a whole