This new bard play style blows.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

Bard and Machinist are from the same mold. Neither should be a better pick than the other. The difference between the two *SHOULD* be play style, to give some of the player base an alternative Support DPS other than Bard. I digress as I find the concept of guns more appealing than arrows. Hehe. And while I agree, a pure DPS should fill a DPS slot, at the moment, there are only 3 job roles at the present moment: Tank, Healer and DPS. Maybe if and when they implement a Hybrid role slot will Bard and Machinist be moved. I can only speculate at this point.

[LambLich]

Actually, that's the perception of the community. That's also actually why Bard was put under the DPS role. They wanted to spread out the support abilities instead of having their own job role because hardly anyone wants to play a job with nothing but support abilities. From what I've seen, Support is a dirty word among communities. A good chunk of people rather to be doing damage because they get the pleasure of "BIG NUMBERS!" It isn't typically hard to balance in its own right. It IS hard to put support abilities in games where the community shuns it, even though support abilities can actually help maximize a party's effective power.

At the end of the day, that isn't a balance problem. It's a perception problem.

They wanted to spread them out? Really that's why ONE class up until 3.0 had these fabled support abilities that required them to be a bastardized battery with a bow.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

Actually, they were the only job to be a full 50/50 Support DPS Hybrid. That is part of their identity at the moment and the heart of their crises is Heavensward made their support side a bit less useful.

As far as support abilities being spread out: I give you these examples -

Monk - Mantra
Ninja - Goad
Dragoon - Battle Litany

The only difference is Bard is a bit more dedicated in the Support side of things.

[ShaneDawn]

Actually, they were the only job to be a full 50/50 Support DPS Hybrid. That is part of their identity at the moment and the heart of their crises is Heavensward made their support side a bit less useful.

As far as support abilities being spread out: I give you these examples -

Monk - Mantra
Ninja - Goad
Dragoon - Battle Litany

The only difference is Bard is a bit more dedicated in the Support side of things.

Ninja; Shadewalker, Smoke Screen, Dancing Edge

Dragoon; At least Disembowel

The only real significant thing that only Bards/Machinists have that will still warrant them a quaranteed raid slot is the ability to party-wide MP regen. TP is also important for the melees, but that can be solved by having a Ninja in the party.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

Those abilities were primarily designed for themselves in mind. If you have duplicate jobs, its a bonus but not mainly intended. You could argue Monk's Dragon Kick the same way but again, intended with Monk first, not party.

I do agree on party significance being a problem, especially since it seems like their support capabilities needs a buff somewhere. Otherwise, Bards/Machs will perceive themselves and others will be perceive them as being weak when they could very well not be.

[ShaneDawn]

Also Monk Dragon Kick***

[ShaneDawn]

I do agree on party significance being a problem, especially since it seems like their support capabilities needs a buff somewhere. Otherwise, Bards/Machs will perceive themselves and others will be perceive them as being weak when they could very well not be.

Probably yeah, but for example Disembowel used to be a real gain when paired with a Bard and was what made Dragoon a real contender with MNK/NIN before the expansion as Bard was pretty much a guaranteed slot on any raid team.

I feel like if the only redeeming feature of the said support classes will be the MP regen (and TP regen and maybe Foe's Requiem to a slight extent), the whole classes will feel very underwhelming everywhere else except the hardest raids where mp/tp regen are a real issue. I think that bard/machinist could do with more class synergy perks than just the Foe's Requiem to make them a valid choice in the dps race.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

I fully agree with everything you just said. I just think part of the problem is player perception at the moment, believing that bard is meant to be a pure DPS when it really isn't.

[Lewtskie]

I just caught some of the Q&A translations right now, and I was sorta appalled at them completely admitting that Warden's Paeon is pretty much just designed as a Raid tool. I know it was expected, but did they really see nothing wrong with just slapping a Raid mechanic in our toolkit and calling it a new ability? Of any kind of new song or skill we could have had; it really takes the piss.

[Maero]

another pointless thread, could it not have been posted in one of the like 6 other Bard threads... oh wait it was
Seriously maybe the issue is now Bards who cannot learn to adapt to the new playstyle.
And saying that do not care about the dps but bitching about being punished for movement... wow some of you really have not played other classes