The argument"MCH/Bard have utility so their damage should be lower"

[Aiselia]

If Bard songs get changed to an instant cast, 15 second buff with a 3 minute cooldown, would that make it okay to raise our DPS and not further nerf it during the duration?

Seems to work fine for other classes, so why not?

[HairyRoger]

If Bard songs get changed to an instant cast, 15 second buff with a 3 minute cooldown, would that make it okay to raise our DPS and not further nerf it during the duration?

Seems to work fine for other classes, so why not?

Why is a dmg nerf during the time you use the buff an issue tho? Trading a powerful aura for 15% less damage is fair enough. The overall lower dps outside of the useage of the buff itself is more the point I think.

[Leonus]

stuff.

Brds in progression content save time.

If your parties are kicking brds/mch it more than likely because the melee dps are bad and they have to blame it on someone.

But screw it. Give casters I stand cast spells that they can use on the move.

Give melee the ability to attack with a melee weapon and ranged distances.

Give everyone party buffs that that effect everyone on the same level as brd minus the damage cut.

Give brds caster/melee dps.

Also, let's give tanks dps level damage and give everyone else the ability to tank.

That should work, should make everyone happy.

If they give brd the dps of casters and melee, they better turn the a ilities into single target abilities only able to be used every 3 minutes for 15 seconds. Then they won't need to be stacked In content. Also melee the ability to attack with there rotation from anywhere on the battlefield and get rid of positionals completely.

Also lower the potency on blm spells to an acceptable level and make their spells instalation and all smn abilities better.

Let everyone e be able to heal themselves massively.

It should fix all the tank, dps and healer problems. No one should be able to complain.

Class names should just be for show. Not serve individual purposes for the sake of diversity.

[Panasync]

It's irre...

Sorry for the late response...

That being said if you don't want to talk potential you have to show parses of two equally skilled players doing the absolute maximum or there is literally no way to know how they compare, unless, you guessed it, you do the math and show potential. I will take either, but you cannot show two equally skilled players, who is judging? How do you know? The reason we use potentials and math is to take those issues out of the equation. Once we know the potentials of the jobs we an easily see and adjust to how it will translate into actual fights.

People posting parses on dummies are attempting to show the jobs potential, they're not fighting dummies and dodging fake AoE's to simulate an actual battle. Another reason we HAVE to use just math in this case is because we don't have a 2.0 server with 2.0 jobs, and since we don't you can't just make up claims you have no evidence for other than anecdotal.

[Sicno]

They totally did BRDs wrong for a dps class. If they wanted to make them a "support" class while still being in the dps slot what they could have done is give them songs that buff other party members in a direct way, like damage bonuses or increased crit rates. That way they can keep their own damage lower than other dps classes but their buffs would make up for it and justify their dps slot. Yes, there's requiem, but there are only 2 caster dps classes for it to matter.

[Amulrei]

Why is a dmg nerf during the time you use the buff an issue tho?

Because other classes get to drop utility while still getting to keep their full DPS status.

Here's the core of the problem; You do not need the TP/MP aura in the open world. You do not need it levelling, you do not need it for light party dungeons and you barely even need it in a lot of hard mode dungeons/trials either. The only time it is even considered is top end raiding. And yet, BRD/MCH is still penalized for not only using this utility (again, unlike NIN or DRG) but punished on top of that for their sheer existence as a "utility class" regardless of if they are even in a situation where their utility is needed or even of any use.

What is good for the goose should be good for the gander. Telling one class they have to pay (twice) for having group utility while others have arguably better examples and get off without losing a single point of DPS is pretty damn pathetic.

[Noira]

You guys really need to stop comparing bard to melee (exluding smoke screen and shadewalker from ninja). Those "support" abilities melee have ? Is part of their damage rotation. Disembowel is a piercing buff for the DRG THEMSELVES, Bard and MCH just happen to benefit...Do you reallly think we would stop using disembowel if there isnt a bard or mch in the party ? A monk wouldn't not use dragon kick it's a damage increase for them (they are blunt damage)

Trick attack is again part of the ninja rotation for burst damage.

Battle Litany kinda dumb to penalize DRG for using an ability that relies too much on rng to even benefit from it. Even then it's still for themselves mostly. No one is going to yell at a drg for not using it. (though im not sure why they wouldn't)

Smoke Screen for sure you could argue that, but what would be the point it's situational ability ?

Shadewalker Yes you would have an argument there.

Goad unlike baard, they cannot goad themselves.

[Odowla]

Battle litany is only like, <1% damage increase used on cooldown.. its not as good as you're thinking.

[Noira]

Was that to me ? That was my point, it's no where near the level of support a bard can provide.

[SpookyGhost]

Battle Litany kinda dumb to penalize DRG for using an ability that relies too much on rng to even benefit from it. Even then it's still for themselves mostly. No one is going to yell at a drg for not using it. (though im not sure why they wouldn't)

I will. ( ' - ' )b