BRD/MCH look here

[ckc22]

So in other words, for people who hate the play style of caster bard. We get a nice big middle finger? Whatever.

IMO should have been expecting this. It was pretty obvious they weren't going to remove the skill - however, at least now you can actually use it decently/get a dps boost from it whereas before it was a tradeoff for nothing.

[Ryaz]

So lets do some math. The buff to GB makes our overall damage increase, along with Increased Action Damage II, 56%, up from 44%.

Split Shot is now equal to 218.4 potency without ammo, 249.6 with. Up from 201.6 and 230.4.

Slug Shot is now equal to 280.8 potency without ammo, 312 with. Up from 259.2 and 288.

Cleaner Shot is now equal to 312 potency without ammo, 343.4 with. Up from 288 and 316.8.

Gauss Round loses about 7.2 potency overall. 280.8 now as opposed to 288.

Ricochet is where we get hurt-- we go from 144 + 432 potency= 576 down to 156 + 312= 468, which is actually a 108 potency drop.

With the nerfs to GR and Richochet, we're looking at a loss of 129.6 potency a minute. We gain 69.8 potency over the course of a Reload/QR combo (6 attacks). Without Rapid Fire, that's approximately 15 seconds. With one QR in the middle, that adds another 19.2. And even if we get no procs for the rest of the time (which is about 17 attacks worth) that's 285.6 extra potency combined on all those Split Shots, giving up a total of around 374.6 over the course of a minute. I'd say that's a pretty big gain, even IF we miss a couple casts due to movement. Add in Rapid Fire and you get even more attacks. And that's WITHOUT getting any procs. If we get procs, the damage potential is even higher.

And if you need movement, we can switch as needed. I'd take instant cast with longer cooldown over what we have now any day.

[RiceisNice]

I welcome this change. I wasn't too far behind most dps relatively, and this would definitely give a dps buff to a high-risk/skill:high-reward playstyle, compared to before where it was high-risk/skill:no/less reward

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

You do realize that you do not need to use those songs in 90+% of all the content in the game. You do not need it while soloing and while in dungeons. You use it about 5% of the time in long dragged out fights which only makes up about 5% of all content in the game. I can see BRDs and MCH taking a 15% damage decrease when in support mode. Shouldn't that be enough? Why should we get punished 100% of the time when we only need those skills 5% of the time? What they should do instead is not only do you take a 15% decrease in damage but also make it to where you can not use GB and WM while in support mode. That would be a 45% total loss in damage while in support mode. The rest of time BRDs and MCH should be doing comparable damage to BLM.

First and Foremost BRDs and MCH are dps. We que up as dps and we take up a dps slot in dungeons and raids. We should be treated as a dps bc there is no slot for SUPPORT DPS.

The point of the matter is, it's vital for progression. No one gives a crap about nerfed, low level content. If that was the case, then Warriors can be considered DPS too.

The other point is, the Dev team and YoshiP himself, has labeled them a support class. Since they run the game and choose how the game runs, they are the ones who decide what it is. Cry, scream and shout as much as you want to, but your view is only an opinion. It's not fact. The Devs thoughts on the class however, are fact.

[Edellis]

Doesn't look like they aimed to do much other than please the parsejunkies (by giving better averaged peaks and dips). The only true buff seems to be that stance switching is a real thing now, with Minuet/Gauss being a Cleric Stance type deal.

If people who cry about (mostly) pointless moving aren't satisfied with this, then i really dont think they will ever be. Like, you can literally pick and choose when you want to use the stance now, viably. It's no longer a SACRIFICE to pick and choose between the playstyle.

If you have to move, turn minuet off. If you're safe for deeps, turn it on. I'll gladly take a 95 potency hit on sidewinder for that.


Not to mention, our AoE potential just got universally buffed, and it was already crazy. Under Minuet, Rain of Death just went from 120 to 130 potency, Quick Nock from 132 to 143.

Misery from 228 under minuet to 247. Come on guys.

[Vlady]

The nerd rage is strong with this group. It's the I must be able to keep up with the other dps crowd argument all over again. You have mobile dps which does not stop when you have to make large movements like every other dps. It's not because you are support it's because you have near 100% dps upkeep which no other job has. That is why your dps is inherently lower.

[Astral145]

Snip.

The whole point to GB/WM was to allow BRD and MCH to gain dps. The Devs failed with this new feature. Not only did it drastically change the way brds and mch play but it doesn't even make up for the loss of mobility. Not even close. When you level up mch and brd from 1 to 50 (mch 30 - 50) it has its own unique style of game play. Its smooth and a lot of fun. The minute you hit lvl 52 the game play devolves and is no where near as fun to play. Don't get me wrong I love my blm and main blm since launch but anyone who mains bard or mch did not want to be a caster class. Some like the changes but a lot do not because as I said GB/WM completely changes the unique fundamental game play of brds and mch. No other class in the game got that kind of changes in 3.0.

[Astral145]

Snip.

Not with GB/WM on. The net gain to over all dps with GB/WM is 5% damage increase to dps. The whole point to GB/WM was to allow BRD and MCH to gain dps. The Devs failed with this new feature. Not only did it drastically change the way brds and mch play but it doesn't even make up for the loss of mobility. Not even close.

[Edellis]

Not with GB/WM on. The net gain to over all dps with GB/WM is 5% damage increase to dps. The whole point to GB/WM was to allow BRD and MCH to gain dps. The Devs failed with this new feature. Not only did it drastically change the way brds and mch play but it doesn't even make up for the loss of mobility. Not even close.

How so. You're still the most mobile class in the game. The cast time on Minuet is low enough to dodge AoEs without even having to slide cast between attacks. And if it isn't, you can now stance switch for free.

[Astral145]

Snip.

Not as well as you think. The devs even threw in a 15sec cool down on GB when you turn it on or off. So stance dance is out of the question especially during your opener and during buff rotations. And with that cast time it throws a wrench in the way brds use to play. That's like adding cast times to drg and mnk it just wont fit.