BRD/MCH look here

[Chairman_Meow]

and that's why a raid group has a blm o-o also spread out targets obviously don't suit blm. Bard single target damage is fine, been doing alex 1-4 all day, isn't v far behind other dps now though we do have a drg in the static so theres that. Idk this imaginary dps check ur talking about that's hard with a bard btw, and I've done them all lol.

Bard single target damage is fine. That's why having one in the party still allows you to clear content. Nothing hard or imagine dps check.... whatever it is you're going on about. They just flat out do less dps than other classes. Not to mention their DPS relies on RNG.

[Sessurea]

Bard single target damage is fine. That's why having one in the party still allows you to clear content. Nothing hard or imagine dps check.... whatever it is you're going on about. They just flat out do less dps than other classes. Not to mention their DPS relies on RNG.

And why would u want 2 of any class? Also arguing single target dps is hardly worthwhile now with this new raid having 2+ targets on screen a lot of the time. T1 boss summons a clone of himself, t3 the hands, t4 the legs. Minuet multidoting and refreshing with ironjaw is Very good dps. bard has good dps vs 2+ high hp targets.

[NoahArks]

After the update I changed my rotation and noticed that mch is pretty much stuck with slow bursts, to then do low damage for a while again. Gauss Barrel is great when you have your buffs ready to use. I'm using this rotation, but I'm still improving it, to be less buff depended. I'm not sure if Turret dps get calculated with wildfire, though. I use Rook + Hyper Charge anyway.

Hotshot > Lead shot > Gauss Barrel > Blood for Blood > Hawkeye > Raging Strikes > Wildfire > Rapid Fire > reload > Gauss Round > Split Shot > Slug Shot > Clean Shot > Split Shot > Quick Reload > Slug Shot > Clean Shot > Gauss Round > Deactivate Gauss Barrel.

With a bit of luck you'll have done the rotation up to the second Clean Shot before Wildfire it's countdown expires. Rotation is definitely not great, but atleast my DPS increased a nice amount. I just need to tweak around, and hopefully come with a way that it's not a complete 15 second burst rotation, to then have crap damage for a while.

[Astral145]

The way I see BRD and MCH they are nothing more than a gimp BLM with a few support utilities that are rarely used. IMO GB/WM did nothing but make the jobs less fun. Going to be honest I wouldn't mind a 45% decrease in damage while in support mode but when Im not a TP/MP battery I want to do comparable damage to blm. We do not need TP/MP songs anymore or no where near when we use to back in 2.0. SMN, BLM, SCH, PLD, DRK and WHM can manage there own mp now. DRG, NIN, MCH and MNK can manage there own TP using DRG's invigorate. Even War can manage there own TP + NIN can throw a goad to War w/out taking a penalty to damage. And before you say BRDs have Foe well DRG now can buff everyone with 15% crit buff and NIN can do several buffs to increase damage for everyone yet we don't consider that a support role?

[Edellis]

rarely used...

I'm done with this thread. I'm going to assume alot of complainers in here didn't even bother with the raid content in 2.0 when they apparently had nothing to complain about.

[Dante_V]

Anyone who says group support is a waste (MP/TP) either doesn't raid and hasn't done content like final coil or has no idea what their talking about. I can promise you in Alex savage these support skills will be mandatory. If bards didn't have these skills at this point literally no one would bring then to a raid because they would just bring another class that provides utility and does more dps.

You can argue that it's not fun anymore and that's fine. Fun is subjective and everyone is entitled to their opinion. But to say that utility is useless is down right ignorant.

[Astral145]

You can argue that it's not fun anymore and that's fine. Fun is subjective and everyone is entitled to their opinion. But to say that utility is useless is down right ignorant.

Well in most cases you don't need them. WHM, SCH, SMN, BLM, DRK and PLD can manage there own MP. DRG, MNK, MCH, BRD and NIN can manage there own TP using DRG's cross class utility. Even War can now manage there own TP. Hell NIN can throw out a Goad with out taking any damage penalty. Only in dire circumstances will you ever need TP/MP Regan from BRD and MCH. Even SMN can cast a raise DURRING COMBAT w/out taking a damage penalty.

[Sessurea]

Well in most cases you don't need them. WHM, SCH, SMN, BLM, DRK and PLD can manage there own MP. DRG, MNK, MCH, BRD and NIN can manage there own TP using DRG's cross class utility. Even War can now manage there own TP. Hell NIN can throw out a Goad with out taking any damage penalty. Only in dire circumstances will you ever need TP/MP Regan from BRD and MCH. Even SMN can cast a raise DURRING COMBAT w/out taking a damage penalty.

U know a paladin runs out of tp in under 3 mins? Also nobody needs paeon like a nin needs it, they will go dry with invigorate not even nearly off cd. All the goad can achieve is delay the paeon slightly if u throw it on the paladin. . Theres no such thing as managing tp either, your either dpsing to max potential or ur not. So sure, if majority of the raid sux at dpsing or voluntairily gimps themselves, yh u wont need paeon then I guess.

[Astral145]

U know a paladin runs out of tp in under 3 mins? Also nobody needs paeon like a nin needs it, they will go dry with invigorate not even nearly off cd. All the goad can achieve is delay the paeon slightly if u throw it on the paladin. . Theres no such thing as managing tp either, your either dpsing to max potential or ur not. So sure, if majority of the raid sux at dpsing or voluntairily gimps themselves, yh u wont need paeon then I guess.

I highly doubt PLD's are starving for TP at 3 mins... there are way too many phase changes. Also are players managing there utilities correctly? once you get to around 500 TP you pop invigorate. By the time you need it again it will be off CD. If you are running into TP problems then you might want to look at your stats. You only need so much ss before it becomes a loss to dps.

[Leonus]

@ Astral145

On a dummy (just a dummy), melee doing a PROPER rotation with proper invigorate usage will run out of tp in 4-5 min or less.

You do not manage tp, that is a fictional thing. Your either trying to do max dps, or you you aren't. If some asks why your numbers are so low and you answer with "I was managing my tp", I'm sure you will be laughed at and then kicked. That's when those "self supporting melee" you talk about lean on that BRD. To help them with their tp problems while allowing them to maintain their rotations and strict timers.

Here is the kicker, brd can help multiple jobs at the same time like that. You cannot compare battle littany, trick attack, dragon kick or disembowel to the things brd does. Gives me back tp on a large scale ( no melee can do that ) and give tp to multiple people at once to flat out maintain their numbers. Neither of those things have a long recast.

Goad - 3 minuts recast
Battle littany -3 minute recast.

Their roles are just different. They may occupy the same spot in a party but they are flat out different.

When the dps comp is in a party is smn, blm, nin, drg and the nin is running dry on tp because of reasons, he doesn't wish for another pure dps, he wishes he had a BRD.

God help the drg if the ninja has to use goad on someone else too....