Ways to fix BRD and MCH in a realistic way

[QiLymePye]

You mean the mana song that healers would rather do without once they've learned the timing of the fight? Or did you mean the tp song which no melee needs once they learn how to manage Invigorate? Or did you just mean the magic damage+ song which only effects half the dps in your party, at best, for a limited time?

When are you, and everyone else who seems unable to do anything else but mindlessly quote these incorrect and inaccurate fallacies, going to pull their heads out of their @$$'s and realize that song's aren't the only reason BRD and MCN exist? When was the last time you failed a pull and said, "Damn, I wish we had a TP song going then. We would've cleared it for sure."

Never. Instead, you just say things like, "DPS is too low. Kick the BRD/MCN."

Exactly!!! Last I checked...BRD and MCH are DPS first and foremost

[Intellion]

Nope, its not, their main bonus are the damn songs, why bards cant understand this?

No.

A Bard's core mechanic revolves around mobility and the rapid-weaving of oGCDs. Songs are just our sidearm. They should be used, but only when appropriate.

Why can't non-Bards just stop commenting on these Bard feedback threads when they don't even play/main the class or know how the class truly operates unlike career Bards?

[meldon90]

No.

A Bard's core mechanic revolves around mobility and the rapid-weaving of oGCDs. Songs are just our sidearm. They should be used, but only when appropriate.

Why can't non-Bards just stop commenting on these Bard feedback threads when they don't even play/main the class or know how the class truly operates unlike career Bards?

You know that giving a class that has useful support features the same DPS of a class who doesnt is making a game unbalanced? Its bad game design, they gave you the minuet and they also said it will be boosted, why are you still here arguing?

Also the word CAREER applied on a game is so wrong i cant even describe.

[Duelle]

You know that giving a class that has useful support features the same DPS of a class who doesnt is making a game unbalanced?

Except it's already been brought up that other DPS have options to help their groups. BRD doesn't (and should not) have a monopoly on group buffs or support abilities. Hell, DRGs can increase the party's critical hit rate while NIN have Goad and the ability to make the enemy take more damage (plus slashing debuff).

[Lewtskie]

You know that giving a class that has useful support features the same DPS of a class who doesnt is making a game unbalanced? Its bad game design, they gave you the minuet and they also said it will be boosted, why are you still here arguing?

Also the word CAREER applied on a game is so wrong i cant even describe.

People have made an extensive list of all the bullshit other jobs can do w/o being penalized. We suffer those penalties when not even using said support mechanics.

So instead of making it so our damage output is halved while playing said support songs, for example, we are constantly doing less damage on average when not even using said mechanics and then taking yet another penalty on top of that when playing them.

So where's the brilliant game design there? And I swear, the only people who keep bringing up the "should be doing the same damage as other DPS" are those who keep trying to tell us off. How many have actually said we should have damage on par with the rest of our role who weren't told off even by us? Seriously, stop putting these concepts on us.

[Intellion]

You know that giving a class that has useful support features the same DPS of a class who doesnt is making a game unbalanced? Its bad game design, they gave you the minuet and they also said it will be boosted, why are you still here arguing?

Also the word CAREER applied on a game is so wrong i cant even describe.

Um, we're not asking for the same DPS as melee or casters. Well, at least many of us career Bards aren't.

We don't want raw damage. That's not what we signed up for when we picked this job. All we want are improvements that actually expand upon our core mechanics and gameplay, not some half-assed "damage buff/caster mode" that no one asked for and also completely destroys what our class is supposed to be.

Our DPS doesn't have to be high. It's a tradeoff we get for our mobility and utility. After all, our class is all about mobility since we compensate for our low damage by being able to maintain DPS while dodging and rapid-firing oGCDs and procs. Just expand on our current gameplay without drastically changing it.

Many of us don't even care about Wanderer's Minuet. Buffing it won't solve the problem. If they removed WM altogether and made Empyreal Arrow and Iron Jaws usable outside of it, and returned the damage nerf on our songs from 15% to 20%, that would be more than enough to make many of us career Bards happy.

But of course, you wouldn't understand any of that because to you, a non-Bard who knows jack squat about the job and hasn't even reached lv 52 yet to try out Wanderer's Minuet, let alone Iron Jaws, Empyreal Arrow, and Sidewinder, "OMG YOU GAIZ ARE JUST DAMN JUKEBOXES, WHY CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?!"

Truly spoken like someone completely clueless about Bards.

Well, as they say, people usually have strong opinions on things they know nothing about. :P

My advice:

You clearly know nothing about why we Bards chose to main Bards in the first place, nor do you know how to properly play our jobs. Yet here you are, making snarky, smart-ass comments in these BARD feedback threads, despite not having even learned Minuet.

You're just making yourself look bad and stupid. I suggest you just leave. Your opinions are null and void of all credibility if you don't even know a damn thing about what you're talking about.

[Kayote]

I say just give us back our autoattack, maybe even buff WM an extra 10% or so. Quick and easy fixes and not too drastic that itll overpower BRD. TBH, given the urgency of this, I wouldnt expect much more. Later on I wouldnt mind some mobility back. Maybe leave Heavy Shot instant so we can at least do some DPS on the move. I mean even BLMs have their Scathe. I also wouldnt be againt the idea thats been going around of WM having increasing buff the more you stand still. Just please no stance dancing... thatd just be horrible!

Not sure about MCH but hopefully they change them a bit more. Theyre so damned similar to BRDs they got the same exact freaking problem. Its better just they fix it for now but please do something different.

Nope, its not, their main bonus are the damn songs, why bards cant understand this?

This dammit, this!!! Never once did I say "I think ill play Bard, they can bunny hop while DPSing. Just think of all the DF groups ill mildly annoy!" Never.

PS: It isnt our songs either, we're DPS and if anything are only slightly ahead of other DPS classes as far as buffs goes. Our DPS should be comparable. There is no support rile in this game.

[ckc22]

Nope, its not, their main bonus are the damn songs, why bards cant understand this?

If this were true they would have had some support added in 50-60 yet they got none.

I played a bard in XI for years - love the support role, however - the mess of a psuedo-ranger we have right now is entirely SE's fault.

Edit: they got what is essentially a long-cast pre-esuna. A pretty crap support ability. Maybe if it applied effect to the whole party it would be marginally useful, or if it worked on non-esunable debuffs. As of now I'd rather they not touch it and just let me Leeches whatever it is off in 1s/Fey caress the whole party instantly.

[Intellion]

I say just give us back our autoattack, maybe even buff WM an extra 10% or so. Quick and easy fixes and not too drastic that itll overpower BRD. TBH, given the urgency of this, I wouldnt expect much more. Later on I wouldnt mind some mobility back. Maybe leave Heavy Shot instant so we can at least do some DPS on the move. I mean even BLMs have their Scathe. I also wouldnt be againt the idea thats been going around of WM having increasing buff the more you stand still. Just please no stance dancing... thatd just be horrible!

Not sure about MCH but hopefully they change them a bit more. Theyre so damned similar to BRDs they got the same exact freaking problem. Its better just they fix it for now but please do something different.


This dammit, this!!! Never once did I say "I think ill play Bard, they can bunny hop while DPSing. Just think of all the DF groups ill mildly annoy!" Never.

PS: It isnt our songs either, we're DPS and if anything are only slightly ahead of other DPS classes as far as buffs goes. Our DPS should be comparable. There is no support rile in this game.

To be honest, while our jobs may be called "Bard," it actually plays more like a ranger. Heck, ever since ARR's launch, the "Bard" class was pretty much built from the ground up as a ranger, and by ranger, I'm referring more to the highly mobile and acrobatic run-and-gun archer like Legolas from Lord of the Rings. Just look at how much rapid-firing, jumping, and acrobatics are involved in our pre-3.0 attack skill animations. Hence, despite the name, you pretty much can't deny that this class plays 90% like Legolas and 10% like a traditional FF Bard. Which is why I still think taking away a "Bard's" mobility now after years of being mobile and suddenly forcing them to be (weak, immobile, and clunky) casters for no good reason is just jarring and unnatural. That's what I'd call "bad game design."

[RiceisNice]

Or did you mean the tp song which no melee needs once they learn how to manage Invigorate? Or did you just mean the magic damage+ song which only effects half the dps in your party, at best, for a limited time?

Never. Instead, you just say things like, "DPS is too low. Kick the BRD/MCN."

Melee needs a TP song if the boss is a punching bag like The Avatar or Kaylia with no downtime. The thing is, current content has none of those bosses. And I'll vouch for this, you're certainly not hitting the enrage timer if melee is getting TP starved during the boss.

One way they can fix MCH? Boost the damage bonus from GB. There's absolutely no reason a full-time GB barely pulls ahead (and I'm talking 1-3% more dps here, under the absolute perfect circumstances, like a target dummy) of not using GB at all.